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Will Ichiro be put in the same light as Roger Maris if he breaks the hits record?
Smellthis
Posts: 78
George Sisler had 257 hits in 1920 during a 154 game schedule. Ichiro has the benefit of eight extra games. Will Ichiro be viewed as the true record holder if he breaks the hits record after his 154th game, or will he be seen the way Roger Maris was. What I think was more amazing about George Sisler was that in 1922, having played 142 games, 12 less that 1920, he had 246 hits. he was definitely no fluke. Who knows how many he would have had that year with 12 more games and a little hot streak. His 246 hits is more than most players have had in a 162 game schedule.
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them out of McCovey bay. Wait..I think I heard Bonds *art...can anyone confirm? That was numer 6
today!! Wait I hear Barry coming...is he wearing the red shoes or the green ones...whoa the blue ones!!!!!!
stop the presses!!!!!
Hey...when will Barry hit #702???
Should we start a coutdown until 702......XXhrs XXmin XX sec
Next pitcher up for Barry...Joe Schmusifltpofs ...Bonds lifetime 3-5 2HRS against!!!!! whoa this sould be fun..whoa
we take you back to Barry......I think he is on the *hitter again!
What will I do if Barry doesn't hit 702 in approx 21 hours, 31 minutes and 12 seconds?
I can't wait until Barry gets up again..move the man to the top of the order so I don't have to wait!
Here ya go ump, here is my lineup card for tonight:
LF Barry Bonds
1B Barry Bonds
3B Barry Bonds
SS Barry Bonds
RF Barry Bonds
2B Barry Bonds
C Barry Bonds
CF Barry Bonds
DH Barry Bonds
RHP Barry Bonds
Coach Barry Bonds
Maybe we need a Barry update on the ESPN site.....going there now
BARRY
BARRY BARRY!!!!
"hey get away from my boat!!!! Im fishing for #702!"
js
JS
all don't worship you and you are not on the first page of MLB.com...I mean have you ever been to
wal mart signing for everyone??
I don't think so pal
JS
<< <i>joestalin, sarcasm is an art, and if done incorrectly, becomes pure obnoxiousness. Let me finish by saying you are no artist. >>
Smellthis
Wait till you have been around for a while....then you'll see the art.
It kinda grows on ya....trust me.
red X...press that!
You can thank me later
JS
<< <i>another post that has gone to the crapper >>
Come on Steve...it's the Jerry Springer hour! Hit'm with a chair!
Mike
I believe the records and the men whose records were broken, make the comparison a bit difficult.
Hits while important, are not as spectacular as homeruns. George Sisler, one of my personal favorites from the pre-war era, was not, nor is, nearly as popular as Babe Ruth.
The record of 60 HRs was a part of baseball lore, actually for all sports. It was THE record. Before this year, only true baseball fans would have known about 257 as a special number.
Maris had probably the most continual pressure EVER in sports to preform his deed. Ichiro has almost casual interest in his possible feat.
With some of the members in the HOF, I see no reason why Maris as well as Ichiro, if he coninues on, should be left out.
Follow-up question.....will Smellmyself last longer on the boards than thegradinator?
Unfocused, impulsive collector of everything ...
Let wait to see (a) if Ichiro breaks Sisler's mark and (b) if so, by how much, before we start talk about qualifiers.
<< <i>Maris' record was always questioned because he broke Ruth's mark by 1. If Maris had hit 64, there wouldn't have been an asterisk to speak of.
Let wait to see (a) if Ichiro breaks Sisler's mark and (b) if so, by how much, before we start talk about qualifiers. >>
What hurt Maris was the fact that he got #61 AFTER his 154th game. Baseball's comissioner even commented then that if Maris didn't get #61 before the 155th game, he personally would not recognize it as the homerun record. When Mark McGwire hit #62 it was on September 8th 1998, long before his 154th game! In Ichiro's case, no one is really making a big deal because as a previous poster pointed out homeruns are more important to fans than hits (instant gratification), when in reality it's better to have a guy on your team get over 220 hits than 60 homeruns because if the guy that gets 60 homeruns has only 150 hits, the guy that had 200 got on base 70 more times which could lead to as much as 70 more runs. I think Ichiro's style is more artistic and rare the way he pinpoints where he wants to send the ball, where as anyone with power and decent bat speed can hit a homerun. I personally like to see triples rather than homeruns because or their scarceness now due to the smaller ballparks. I wonder when the last inside the park grand slams occured? Does anyone know? Also with Sisler's record hasn't received much attention over the years. I remember growing up, everyone I knew who was into baseball wou check out after the first couple of weeks in April to see who had the best chance to get the homerun record.
He has soo many hits, yet he isn't even close to being a leader in OB%. He is nowhere to be found in SlG%. There are MANY MANY better hitters in todays game.
When I say overrated, I do not mean he isn't any good. But rather he isn't an exhaulted God like everyone makes him out to be. Many people make him the best hitter in baseball for Pete's sake.
SMelly, your rationale on how runs are created is way off. Why would you rather hit a triple?? A home run is certainly the best hit, come on.
Manny Ramirez blows Ichiro out of the water at the plate. Ichiro is supposed to be an on base machine, yet Ramirez gets on base more often, and at a better rate. Then he absolutey blows him out of the water in SLG.
The two most important facets as a hitter, are frequency of getting on base, and the efficiency of moving runners to home.
Totoal hits doesn't tell you a whole lot, and if you think it does....Bill Buckner has more lifetime hits than Mickey Mantle and Ted Williams.
one thing i still can't decide...who was worse? GRADINATOR or SMELLSLIKEAZZANBALLS
<< <i>Ichiro=Overrated!
Then he absolutey blows him out of the water in SLG.
>>
Might that be because Ramirez is a POWER hitter and is supposed to be driving home runs and Ichiro is a LEADOFF hitter and is supposed to set up those behind him?
Your logic is flawed, at best. You are comparing apples and oranges.
You want to talk on-base percentage? You really must be kidding.
Ichiro's OBP is .408 as of today, bettered only by Melvin Mora at .419 and Travis Haffner at .414. He even is beating your vaunted Manny's OBP too.
Who would you rather have fielding? Ichiro with his cannon of an arm and amazing playmaking ability, or Manny? Ichiro has 3 errors in 352 total chances, with 339 put outs and 10 assists. Manny has 6 erros in 192 total chances, and 182 putouts. Ichiro's fielding percentage is .991, and Manny's is .969.
Power hitters are a dime a dozen nowadays...between the two, Ichiro's a more valuable (and rarer player).
Anyway, it's a moot debate as he won't do it. I would love to see him do it, and a week ago I was sure he would do it, but he slowed down this past week and he's just barely on pace for it. Another oh-fer and he's done. I see 252 as his final total, with a 4-4 in the last game.
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TheRoach
First thing, Ichiro currently ranks 50th in OPS! Right there, it completely knocks him off any chance of being among the best offensive players.
He ranks 11th in OB%. Nice. But for a punch and judy hitter like him, he would have to be running away with the OB% lead to try to stake any claim to "best" hitter.
Those are the two most important factors that go into a hitters value. Of course there are more complicated ones that are better, but I doubt people would get those. Besides, those will tell the same thing, even more so.
Remember this, ICHIRO has made 409 outs!! I haven't found any of the top 50 OPS guys who have made that many outs. Yeah, by swinging at a lot of pitches, he racks up the hits total, but he also racks up the "outs made" totals.
For comparison sake, Manny has made 362 outs.
Now you can go throug the value of each offensive event for all the players to get a true reading(has been done), and what it is going to tell you is about the same thing that the OPS will tell you. Ichiro is a good offensive player, but not remotely among the best.
Total hits don't mean a whole lot in player evaluation. Like I said, look at Mantle's, and Ted William's year hit totals, and compare them to Bill Buckner's, and you should get the idea that total hits don't tell you much about how good a player is. The rate and efficiency of getting on base(OB%), and the rate and efficency of sending runners to home quickly(SLG%), taken with the negative impact a hitter costs(outs)= the value of a hitter.
Ichiro's high hit totals come at the expense of making a lot of outs. He gets on base well, but he doesn't advance runners efficiently towards home (SLG). He isn't even anywhere to be found in that area.
It is not apples and oranges. Any hitters job is to creat as many runs as possible, lead off, or clean up. Runs are created in the TWO main areas shown. The facts show that Ichiro does not create nearly as many runs as others, as evidenced by his 50th rank in OPS. What Ichiro is good at, is MAKING A LOT OF OUTS though.
Fielding adds another dimension for an overall players value. He is soo far behind some of the hitters in todays game, that his fielding won't even remotely close the gap as a total player.
There are many, many good evaluation tools that can be used, and not just "He is unique", or 'he has guts", or "he is a gamer", or any other garbage like that. All baseball fans should read them and dissect them to get a better understanding of what is REALLY happening.
I could take a couple of hours to really bury any argument against this. However, It will probably fall on deaf ears, or some other "gamer" response. If somebody wants to get together with me and sit down for a few hours I will be happy to tackle it, being that it shows that it is somebody that REALLLy has something to say, and discuss.
To say my logic is flawed, is crazy. Logic is flawed if there isn't true understanding(that is why that comment was made, for it shows lack of true understanding). I will be happy to assist if you are willing.
a guy like Juan Pierre or Luis Castillo, both singles hitters, create a lot of havoc that goes beyond numbers.
they make pitchers throw a lot of extra pitches, throws to first, they make the outfielders hurry and make mistakes, they force pitchers to pay attention to them and therefore pay less attention to the clean up hitter.
there is also another main component which is defense...Luis Castillo (GG last year) saves a ton of runs which certantly makes up for his lack of RBI's.
Groucho Marx
Ichiro would be a tremendous weapon for a team in contention.
Vintage Cards Specialist/Hobby Historian
Vintage Baseball Cards website:
http://www.obaks.com/vintagebaseballcards/index.html
Yes, even pro ball players, or announcers say goofy stuff like that all the time. Don't worry, when time permits, I will be having a book come out debunking the myths of MLB analysis. LOTS of good evidence to support it.
Example.... announcers always say, "boy this guy is good at getting his team going and on the board fearly as evidence by all of his first inning homers. But he struggles in the clutch as his ninth inning homers are not nearly as many" That is a typical comment you hear. Of course, nobody bothers to recognize that the player probably has all of those first inning home runs because he bats THIRD and always hits in the first inning, therefore MORE 1st inning at bats. DUH. That is a simplistic example, but there are MANY more that can be debunked rather easily. Sure it takes some of the romance out of the game, but it also stops people from making downright goofy statements and claims. LIKE POST SEASON CLUTCH PLAYERS. I have a nice essay about that one already, very clear, and extremely strong evidence against the existence of the mythical post season clutch player.
Besides, the "wrecking havoc" of a base stealer also "wrecks havoc" on the BATTING COUNT of the batters hitting behind them. Any advantage gained by seeing so called better pitches etc... is negated with the fact that batters behind them are forced to take strikes(and a lot of times HIT ME HARD strikes) to allow base stealers to run. One study showed that effect of RIckey Henderson's insane steal totals, and how the batters behind him suffered, NOT benefited, from having to hit behind in the count. Anyway, that is all heresay, as the painstaking play by play analysis gives you a pretty precise value in all of that. None of it is significant. None of the 'intangibles' really changes Ichiro's rank amont players.
DEFENSE! Defenders do NOT save a ton of runs. People make outrageous claims all the time, and none are close. The way people talk, defenders save 3,000 runs in a season. Well duh, teams don't score that many runs. Don't forget, if Ichiro wasn't playing RF, SOMEBODY ELSE WOULD. It wouldn't be left vacant. You have to judge what Ichiro would do above the average replacement OF( playing on his team, in his park), and it isn't nearly as much as you think. Defensive meaurements are not as solid as offensive, but with the play by play analysis and charting, it is narrowed down pretty well. Formulas for older player jive pretty well with that analysis to make them interesting enough to consider.
<< <i>
First thing, Ichiro currently ranks 50th in OPS! Right there, it completely knocks him off any chance of being among the best offensive players.
>>
I take it you know that OPS is HALF slugging? Ichiro is a LEADOFF hitter, not a power hitter. Of course his power numbers are going to suffer. Not everyone has to be a HR hitter to be an important piece to the offense.
<< <i>
He ranks 11th in OB%. Nice. But for a punch and judy hitter like him, he would have to be running away with the OB% lead to try to stake any claim to "best" hitter.
>>
Ichiro is currently 3rd in the AL in OBP and 23rd in the AL for OPS. Not too bad for a 'punch and judy hitter'.
<< <i>
Those are the two most important factors that go into a hitters value. Of course there are more complicated ones that are better, but I doubt people would get those. Besides, those will tell the same thing, even more so.
>>
So the value of 'runs created' sounds like it's the most important statistic to you. As of today, Ichiro leads ALL AL batters with 120.7 RC value,w ith Manny BEHIND him at 119.6.
<< <i>
Remember this, ICHIRO has made 409 outs!! I haven't found any of the top 50 OPS guys who have made that many outs. Yeah, by swinging at a lot of pitches, he racks up the hits total, but he also racks up the "outs made" totals. For comparison sake, Manny has made 362 outs.
>>
Ichiro has struck out 56 times, Manny 116 times. A strikeout leave NO chance of moving runners along, whereas a groundout or flyout does.
<< <i>
Now you can go throug the value of each offensive event for all the players to get a true reading(has been done), and what it is going to tell you is about the same thing that the OPS will tell you. Ichiro is a good offensive player, but not remotely among the best.
Total hits don't mean a whole lot in player evaluation. Like I said, look at Mantle's, and Ted William's year hit totals, and compare them to Bill Buckner's, and you should get the idea that total hits don't tell you much about how good a player is. The rate and efficiency of getting on base(OB%), and the rate and efficency of sending runners to home quickly(SLG%), taken with the negative impact a hitter costs(outs)= the value of a hitter.
Ichiro's high hit totals come at the expense of making a lot of outs. He gets on base well, but he doesn't advance runners efficiently towards home (SLG). He isn't even anywhere to be found in that area.
It is not apples and oranges. Any hitters job is to create as many runs as possible, lead off, or clean up. Runs are created in the TWO main areas shown. The facts show that Ichiro does not create nearly as many runs as others, as evidenced by his 50th rank in OPS. What Ichiro is good at, is MAKING A LOT OF OUTS though.
>>
You again point out the hitter's job is to creat as many runs as possible. I have shown you stats that shown Ichiro's runs created stat is superior (minor, but still better) than Manny's. What do you have for me now?
<< <i>
Fielding adds another dimension for an overall players value. He is soo far behind some of the hitters in todays game, that his fielding won't even remotely close the gap as a total player.
I could take a couple of hours to really bury any argument against this. However, It will probably fall on deaf ears, or some other "gamer" response. If somebody wants to get together with me and sit down for a few hours I will be happy to tackle it, being that it shows that it is somebody that REALLLy has something to say, and discuss.
To say my logic is flawed, is crazy. Logic is flawed if there isn't true understanding(that is why that comment was made, for it shows lack of true understanding). I will be happy to assist if you are willing. >>
Logic is flawed without understanding? Since you didn't know (or care to look up) that Ichiro's runs scored stat is higher than Manny's, I would believe you don't understand the game. Therefore, by your own words, your logic is indeed flawed.
You are obviously either so biased AGAINST Ichiro or for Manny that it is YOU who cannot see any logic in any of the FACTS that have been presented here. It is your OPINION that to be a true offensive weapon, you have to drive in runs, you have to hit for a ton of power. Manny is a great power hitter; I am not arguing that. But power hitters are far from rare these days. A true set-up man, a guy who knows his place on the team is to set up the power hitters behind him, get on base, wreak havoc on the basepaths, and upset the flow of the game. Throw in near flawless fielding (half the errors in double the chances of Manny), a cannon of an arm, and more assists and you do get a player who is a rarer talent than what Manny can bring to the table.
Ichiro is a more dangerous offensive threat than Manny. I have defensed every single arguement you have attempted to throw up in defense of Manny. Again, I am sure you'll come up with more nonsense in your next post. I don't see how you can possibly defense the arguement about AVG, OBP, and RC stats that are in favor of Ichiro in every category?
Am I saying singles hitters are not as valuable as power hitters who have good OB%? In most cases of course, unless you are Wade Boggs! Boggs hit for VERY HIGH AVERAGE, AND GOT on base at an incredible rate! THat is what Ichiro would need to do to be considered among the top hitters.
In just over 2,000 at bats before this year, Ichiro has ONLY 143 extra base hits!! That is pitiful!
That proves my point right there. The numbers I have were for MLB, don't for the other guys. He is good in one aspect, bad in the other. There are guys who are just as good in his OB aspect, and blow him away in the SLG aspect. I have no bias towards either one. I could are a less about Manny Ramirez, he was just a good hitter who I threw out there. Ichiiro is good, read my post above. It is you who probalby has the bias toward your hero or something. RC ain't the best metric.
<< <i>RC ain't the best metric. >>
Did you or did you not just say that a hitter's job is to create runs? Did you or did you not say that's the most important basis for a hitter?
You sure are contradictory.
What team wouldn't want a career .337 leadoff hitter on their team? Your bias towards power hitters is painfully apparent, as everything you mention involves either extra base hits and slugging. Ichiro is NOT that player. He's a true leadoff hitter, and that is what makes him special. He doesn't go get bulked up to hit 30 HR's a year to make the fat payday like every other guy out there, he knows his strength as a hitter is not in the power, it's getting on base, stealing bases, playing flawless defense.
It's obvious you think you are correct, and I know I won't be budging from my stance. Let's chalk this up and agree to disagree.
You said Ichiro's job is to lead off and get on base. He does that fine. But don't you think he would be more valuable IF he maintained his on base skills AND added more doubles, triples, and home runs?? Yes, he would be far more valuable if he did that.
Currently there are 10 guys in MLB who get on base more frequently than Ichiro, AND they add many more doubles, triples, and homers, therefore they are responsible for creating more runs(not using the runs created formula).
It is also a third or fourth place hitters to get on base as well, as the next few hitters in the lineup are quite good hitters.
If a slugger with better on base skills than Ichiro were batting leadoff, then that slugger would be just as good or better leadoff man as Ichiro. But then he would also be adding all the extra base hits that created runs rather efficiently.
Like I said, Ichiro is not heads and shoulders above others in the ob department to overcome the fact that guys with similar or better on base numbers are blowing him away in SLG department.
Ichiro would be considered one of the best hitters in the game IF he maintained his AVG/OB skills AND added more doubles, triples, and homers like many other players can do. They can do both!! Ichiro can only excell in one of those areas.
<< <i>but smellthis...there is an ignore button...look in the top right hand corner of your screen, you will see a
red X...press that! >>
Joe,
I don't have a red X, I just have a black one. What should I do?
Tabe
God you are so biased towards power hitters it's pitiful. I am absolutely done with this discussion because you can't accept the fact a hitter can be the most dangerous weapon without hitting a ton of HRs.
Ichiro on base (and blazing speed) means he can score from first wheras most people need to be at second to score say on a double.
Enjoy your ignorance.
35 stolen bases, however, don't ignore the 10 caught stealings. Remember, every caught stealing negates the positive impact of TWO stolen bases.
ALso, do not forget to include Ichiro's previous two seasons in his skill set. You do not judge the value of a player based on one year of hitting. Last season there were probably about 75 better hitters than Ichiro!
Here is another example of what I am talking about by being BOTH an OB guy AND a SLG guy...Bobby Abreu has an OB% of .420, so he is better than Ichiro, in Ichiro's strongest category!! GETTING ON BASE AND SETTING THE TABLE! But, Abreu is also Slugging at .537, so he is bringing in runs on THE OTHER HALF OF WHAT COMPRISES HOW RUNS ARE CREATED BY A HITTER. He also has 38 stolen bases and 5 caught stealings. There isn't even a comparison between these two, as ABREU blows Ichiro out of the water.
Bonds, Pujols, Edmonds, Rolen, Berkman, Drew, Helton, Mora, ALL BEAT ICHIRO AWAY IN ON BASE SKILLS. Then they blow him away in the Slugging component. So what leg are you standing on? Those are guys that beat him in OB, but there are many other guys right with him there, but blow him away in SLG. So what facts are you looking at?
That isn't even including the Middle infielders who have better numbers(or close numbers) AND play the more important and difficult defensive postions. Tejada, Jeter, Arod(just used to him at SS). Then there is IRod.
I have no bias at all against a singles hittter. I just know for a fact that a singles hitter like Ichiro is not as good an offensive machine as power hitters WHO GET ON BASE AT A HIGHER RATE!!!!!!!!
You seem to think that I am saying that Ichiro is a bum or something. He is really good. But plenty of others superior.
Not sure what else I can say. Enjoy I geuss.
Thanks for the break from the daily grind. It was fun.
I like how you throw in Ichiro's last 2 seasons, but fail to put in his rookie season here in the states, where he batted .350, 242 hits, 34 doubles, and 8 triples. In total bases, he beats out your boy Abreu (heck he's 15th overall among all players). Not too bad for a hitter who has 'no' power.
I said I would stay away from this thread, and now I truly am done. The fact that you have made my point about the commonality of the power hitter in today's game says all I wanted to say. Ichiro is a much, much more rarer talent than any of those power hitters you mentioned.
There isn't a team in baseball that wouldn't be beter with a player like Ichiro.
I don't care if he is unique. Duane Kuiper is unique because he hit only one home run. Dontrelle Willis is unique because he is a left handed pitcher with a throw back motion. That doesn't make him better than Johan Santana. Or maybe it does since he shows batters a 'unique' perspective. You gotta be kidding me.
Rickey Henderson, and Wade Boggs were top of the order hitters who didn't always hit too many homers, AND THEY WERE JUST AS GOOD AS THE BEST POWER HITTERS!! WHY? BECAUSE THEY DOMINATED the ON base portion, and merely held their own in the SLG department. Ichiro does not do what a singles hitter needs to do, ala Boggs, to be up with the elite power/on base guys. SO there goes your "your bias" against singles hitters statement. Or he didn't steal at the rate of a Rickey Henderson to make a big splash in that department. If he had 95 stolen bases to go with a .470 on base percentage, then he truly would be a GOD. As it stands now, he might crack the top 25.
Heck, Ichiro doesn't even hit many DOUBLES. He had 29 and 27 the past two years. Not too good for a guy with "God like Speed"
Also, you mentioned Ichiro's speed accounting for extra. Now don't forget this fact...Ichiro gets a lot of infield hits, and infield hits do not ADVANCE BASE RUNNERS as much as singles hit to the outfield. So an Ichiro infield single to the hole in SS, is NOT as valuable as a Sheffield single to medium deep left center.
Yes, you need to stay away from this thread. My only question is to quote a line from the immortal Mr. Hand. "What are you, on Dope?"
Rich Dauer struck out only about 30+ times a year, and that is pretty unique. Not too many ball players can do that. I geuss I would take him over Joe Morgan, and Ryne Sandberg, and Robby Alomar,, and Jeff Kent because there are a lot of power hitting second basemen to choose from. Those guys are a dime a dozen. I would rather have Rich Dauer because he is unique and can do things that those guys can't. That is your rationale on Ichiro. Quite foolish.
the marlins probably played teams which were all superior to them in SLG, BA, etc..
and yet they won!
Heart, desire and luck are key ingridients in the end.
and since we are in a sportcards message board, numbers do not translate into hobby love.
Groucho Marx
<< <i>the beauty of numbers is that they dont mean much in the end ...
the marlins probably played teams which were all superior to them in SLG, BA, etc..
and yet they won!
Heart, desire and luck are key ingridients in the end.
Amen on that brother!
and since we are in a sportcards message board, numbers do not translate into hobby love. >>
They kind of do. If Mark McGwire had 10 career homeruns and a .225 batting, would anyone be searching for his RC?
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Smell me!!!
As for winning the World Series, the Marlins do not get into the playoff if there are 9 teams that score more runs than them, and 9 teams that GIVE up less runs than them. The Marlins were a very good team with excellent pitching.
Once you get into the playoffs in baseball, it is basically a crapshoot on who will win. An 88 win team squaring off against a 100 win team in a short span of 7 games has almost as good a chance as each other to win. WHY? Because 7 game stretches don't mean much.
Finally, Heart, desire garbage, DId the Marlins forget how to use that? If that really made a difference, then they should draw upon that and win 100 games every year. Why don't they? Because in the end, what really decides how good you are is how many runs you create and prevent. If you are good enough to make the playoffs, then you just have to hope you have one of your good stretches of play, and not your bad(that even the very best baseball teams go through), and that will decide who wins the WS.
The Myth of Heart, and post season hero worship is another long myth topic however, so I will end discussion on that one. Unless you want to meet and sit down and go over all the evidence with me.
If Ichiro leads off the game with a single, he has a 1.000 batting average.
If Ichiro leads off the game with a triple, he has a 1.000 batting average.
Batting average and On base% say that both of those events are of equal value. THEY are OBVIOUSLY not.
Based on play by play analysis, it is known that the lead off triple will score x amount of times, and create x amount of runs. It will also know the x amount of times a lead off single is worth, and how many times it scores etc....
I do not have the exact figure on hand, but the triple is approximately 2.2 times more valuable in that situation. BUt according to Ichiro's BA and OB it does not reflect the gross difference in the two situations. SLUGGING PERCENTAGE WILL, as the triple is a SLG% of 3.000, and the single 1.000. A Home Run in that situation is approximately 3 times more valuable.
This play by play run value is done with every possible situation, with every hit, and is very accurate. It also shows the negative effect of how making outs comes into play. It is complicated, and is not easily found. It is called Super Linear Weights. HOWEVER, a quick and dirty measurement tool exists that correlates very well with those results, and that is OPS. OPS=OB%+SLG%. The players that are best in OPS will match up very well with the players who are best in the in depth analysis(Super Linear Weights). The players BEST in those categories are the ones who are responsible for the most runs. The players that are responsible for the most runs, are the most responsible towards winning games.
It makes no difference on the avenue in which you create your runs. You can create them with a ton of singles like Ichiro, or you can create them with a ton of everything like Albert Pujols. What comes out in the end is what you did.
Ichiro is an excellent ballplayer. My whole point was not to over value him and rank him with the elite hitters of the game, and not to over value the HITS totals, as total hits don't paint the proper picture on what is important, and what leads to runs, and wins.
I would rather see a .400 hitter any day of the week.
There are more and less productive ways to not make an out.
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Vargha bucks have left and gone away?
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1 error
2 hit by pitch
3 catchers interference
4 walk
5 strike out (catcher drops bal)
6 fileder's choice
the game is completely different so it's hard to compare eras, but that many hits, regardless is awesome.