Barry Bonds is arguabley the best offensive player ever!

Wondo

Babe Ruth and Ted Williams are there; Aaron for sustained greatness over a massive period of time. Barry will get on base 75 more times than Ichiro this year!

joestalin

triple crowns?
.400 seasons?
time out during prime to go fight wars?

LMK
JS

Wondo

joestalin,

No disrespect to Teddy Ballgame. He and Ruth set the bar - way high. I don't beleive arguments concerning William's war service are applicable - he missed out on career stats; not peak performance. As for .400 - that is smoething that is undeniabley awesome. My point is that Bonds has acheived the era dominance of Ruth and Williams and should be credited with breaking several of their single season marks (HR, BB, SLG, OBS.)

mintluster

"arguable" is the CORRECT word...I am glad you used that. He is in the top 3 maybe for offensive players.

Again the BIG problem is how to deduct credit for the small parks, juiced balls, and juiced bodies.....how do we do that?

When Bonds hit 73 in 2001, Sosa only hit 9 less Homeruns (64). This hardly shows Bonds far over his peers, especially considering other pro athletes who are part of the BALCO scandal have TESTIFIED TO A GRAND JURY that Bonds was using steroids and other "enhancers."

This may not mean anything to those who are collecting his cards and have a vested interest in covering it up and acting like it means nothing, but it means a LOT when it comes to ranking the greatest players of all time.

I cannot say that Bonds is better than Ruth, Ted Williams, or Hank Aaron.....

Match up all the stats (regular season AND POSTSEASON - too many Bonds fans always forget about the post season stats), and then figure out how to factor in the whole "Juiced Ball/Juiced Body Era" and the DIRECT LINK TO THE BALCO SCANDAL.

Figure that all out and come up with a formula. Somebody, anybody. I would like to see it. I will admit I can't do it because it will be hard.
But one thing I know is, if you are OBJECTIVE about it, I doubt Bonds will end up as the #1 player of all-time.

mintluster

<< <i>triple crowns?
.400 seasons?
time out during prime to go fight wars?

LMK
JS >>

Teddy Ballgame is the MOST UNDERRATED PLAYER OF ALL-TIME! (Ripken is the most OVERRATED). To see the stats Teddy Ballgame put up and look at the years lost due to honorable service to our country during WWII....IMAGINE his numbers if you give him back those 5 or 6 seasons lost in HIS PRIME!

And also....we do not have the LUXARY of seeing an ESPN clip of him everyday like we do of Bonds. That is something that our current generation puts a lot of stock on.

It's hard for most people to truly give the proper amount of credit to a player they never saw play once versus a guy you see smacking homeruns into the water every other day.

mintluster

A very cool record Bonds has not broke yet is most times reaching base (by hit, walk or hit-by-pitch). The record is 381, by Babe Ruth. Here are the only seasons of 350 or more since 1900, according to Lee Sinins' Sabermetric Encyclopedia:

Reaching base is Barry Bonds specialty. Here are the Top 4 Seasons:

381 -- Babe Ruth 1923
358 -- Ted Williams, 1949
356 -- Barry Bonds, 2002
353 -- Babe Ruth, 1921

Gemmy10

Just remember Ruth played in the "Dead Ball Error" where when he hit 40 or 50 Homers the 2nd best guy had 13 Home Runs. And to add further to his greatness he holds several records as a pitcher and probably would have made the Hall of Fame on his pitchng endeavers alone.

Axtell

Bonds HRs = juiced bodies + juiced balls + diluted pitching + tiny ballparks

No thanks, I wouldn't even put him in top 5 of all time.

edit: added link:


http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/


This is a great site for looking up stats.

Wondo

Gemmy10,

Good points although overstated. Ruth was the trailblazer making it known that power totals were reachable. That confidence, along with unmatchable athletic capability, brought the HR era in. The ball wasn't necessarly dead, the game was. Within 10 years of Ruths HR record, many people came hit over 40 and when Ruth hit his 60, Gehrig hit 47. Foxx, Greenberg and Wilson all hit 50+ within 10 years.

Ruth was nearly superhuman, but later acheivements proved that other athletes were on his heels.


I disregard the era arguements of small parks, night ball, relief pitchers, Negro influence, spit-ball, etc. What each man achieved is legendary - let us not diminish the accomplishment.

I think the most salient point that identifies Ruth as the greatest ballplayer ever is the fact that many knowledgeable bvaseball histoirians credit him with Cy Young Award status the years he pitched. Can you imagine Barry Bonds pitching like Greg Maddux? Well, that's what Ruth did!


Editted to add: Axtell, no statistical evaluation supports your theory. Barry has achieved an offensive production level that, whether evaluated by James, Thorn, Palmer, raw stats puts, him in the top three. The fact that he is a perceived a$$hole does not detract from his abilities.

DirtyHarry

Gemmy - respectfully - I think it is a stretch to state Ruth would have made it to the HOF basis pitching statistics alone. I do think his pitching accomplishments, added to his offensive accomplishments, are what distinguishes him as the greatest player of all time. Especially when you compare what he did versus other players within his era.

As to the title of this thread - I think it's accurate. It's argueable that Bonds is the best offensive player ever. It is very difficult to compare players in different eras. To give him his due, IMO Bonds is the best offensive player in the current era. Even though he is a jerk. Regards.

Goldenage

@mintluster said:
A very cool record Bonds has not broke yet is most times reaching base (by hit, walk or hit-by-pitch). The record is 381, by Babe Ruth. Here are the only seasons of 350 or more since 1900, according to Lee Sinins' Sabermetric Encyclopedia:

Reaching base is Barry Bonds specialty. Here are the Top 4 Seasons:

381 -- Babe Ruth 1923
358 -- Ted Williams, 1949
356 -- Barry Bonds, 2002
353 -- Babe Ruth, 1921

An interesting stat I was not aware of. Babe Ruth probably will never see that record be broken. One reason is because he's dead. The other being that it just seems out of reach.

perkdog

Some memorable past posters red boxed in this thread 😂😂😂