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2004 Update: Bonds v Soriano

joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
in Sports Talk
through tonight:

Soriano's first 2611 AB's 125 homers
Bonds's first 2601 AB's 117 homers

hmmmmm

JS

Comments

  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    How many did Arod have in the same period?

  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    through 2506 AB Arod had 164 homers...at his current pace he would break 500 some time in the
    2006 season, then 600 in 2008, assuming he doesn't go on a bender like Bonds did in 02. Bonds has
    played 18 years, if Arod played 18 years at his current pace he would have 774 homers.

    JS
  • loki23loki23 Posts: 134
    Soriano's first 2611 AB's 125 homers
    Bonds's first 2601 AB's 117 homers


    Don't get me wrong, I think they are both great players and very talented, but, one key stat is not included in this argument....Walks

    Soriano's first 2611 AB's 125 homers...122 walks
    Bonds's first 2601 AB's 117 homers...377 walks

    Taking this into consideration, Bonds and Soriano may be close in HRs after 2600+ Statistical ABs BUT...in that span, Soriano got there in 244 less plate appearances. And that says a lot to me.

    My 2 Cents.

    -KG

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  • TheRoachTheRoach Posts: 483
    It will be interesting to see Soriano's numbers in 4 years, when he turns 40 years old like Bonds.....

    image




    TheRoach





    image
    7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
  • BigKidAtHeartBigKidAtHeart Posts: 1,799 ✭✭
    I think it is funny that joestalin is busy trying to get this
    tired old arguement going again...

    yet he consistantly ignores the fact his FSU noles
    got their Ass handed to them on a platter!


    He spins and diverts attention as good as John Kerry!
    image
    imageimage
  • TMcTMc Posts: 124
    Too bad that Soriano can't catch a cold. Might be a good argument if he was somewhat competent in the field.
  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    this guy looks pretty decent
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  • cardboardjunglecardboardjungle Posts: 26
    Bonds: 1st 2601 ABs - 377 BB, 448 K, 169 SB, 5 Seasons, Age 25
    Soriano: 1st 2612 ABs - 122 BB, 549 K, 138 SB, 6 Seasons, Age 28 (or older?)

    I hate Bonds, but he was (and is) the better player.

    The best part of this comparison is that neither player has a series ring.
    Yes, my ebay id is cardboardjungle.
  • metsfanmetsfan Posts: 834
    I wonder how old Pujols really is? I think he's older then he says he is.
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  • TheRoachTheRoach Posts: 483


    << <i>this guy looks pretty decent >>



    Nah. Just look at his RBIs. They have dropped off each year since he was a rookie. He's a bum!!

    image





    TheRoach




    image
    7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    I think Aaron deserves the record, he worked for it. He faced a lot of threats and such and still went out and did it. I still feel that Barry cheated. He used steroids to get HR ability even though it took most of his fielding ability. I don't like him, I wish Maris still had the single season record and I hope Aaron keeps the all time record. That is just my .02
  • TheRoachTheRoach Posts: 483
    Unless you have concrete proof that he took steroids, please quiet yourselves.

    Compare Barry Bonds 1999 season with Barry Larkin's 1996 MVP season. In '98 Bonds hit 49 homers. The following year, he hit 73 HR for a increase of 50%. Barry Larkin never hit more than 20 HR in any given season, but all of the sudden he hits 33 HR in 1996. That was a 65% increase in his power. Just one "career year", right? Ok, then '99 was Bonds' career year. Happy now?

    But truthfully, we all know that Barry could still hit 60+ homers any of the last 3-4 years if he didn't get walked so much. He is like 3-4 homers behind the N.L leader, and Barry has over 200 walks!!! That's 200 less oportunities to crack one out. What can you say about that? I don't think his power ever slipped from the '99 season to be honest. I just think he isn't given the opportunity to hit them anymore. I'm not saying that he WOULD DEFINITELY hit 70 or more homeras, but I am quite sure that he would consistently hit 55-65 homers a year without all those walks....

    Arod hit 57 HR 2 years ago. Was he on the juice? 57 dingers is not a EXTREME difference from Bonds' 73 is it?




    TheRoach






    image
    7 MVP awards, the single season HR record, career walks record, single season walks record, 700HR/500SB, and two batting titles near 40 years old. How can one argue that those aren't stats of the greatest to ever play the game??? All this and there is still more to come!!!! Bonds:2005 NL MVP. Or are you going to doubt him again?
  • sagardsagard Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think it is funny that joestalin is busy trying to get this
    tired old arguement going again...

    yet he consistantly ignores the fact his FSU noles
    got their Ass handed to them on a platter!


    He spins and diverts attention as good as John Kerry!
    image >>




    No he's just sticking with an arguement that has been proven to be completely wrong. You know, kind of like Bush. image
  • ROCKDJRWROCKDJRW Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭
    image
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  • SmellthisSmellthis Posts: 78
    That picture looks like Bush doesn't know where is heart is, or he's trying to do a Napoleon.
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    take it over to the open fourm, this board is for serious baseball talk

    Thanks
    Managment

  • BugOnTheRugBugOnTheRug Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭


    << <i>through tonight:

    Soriano's first 2611 AB's 125 homers
    Bonds's first 2601 AB's 117 homers >>


    Soriano - 0 MVP's
    Bonds - 6 MVP's

    hmmmmmm

    BOTR
  • megatronmegatron Posts: 955


    << <i>through tonight:

    Soriano's first 2611 AB's 125 homers
    Bonds's first 2601 AB's 117 homers



    hmmmmm

    JS >>



    I like both players (not saying anything about them as people), and I think they will both share the same magical number at the end of their careers - 800.

    Bonds will have about 800 home runs, and Soriano will have about 800 errors.
    image

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  • noclassnoclass Posts: 165
    The Bonds steroids use BS. Does anyone believe that Bonds is the only MLB player using steroids? Because he is the only MLB player that is putting up those kinds of numbers
  • joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    Albert

    Oh thats a great statment! Since he isn't the only one taking roids, that makes it ok...Im sorry I never
    looked at it that way..forget about everything I ever said about Bonds, if its good enough for Javy Lopez
    then its good enough for Bonds!

    Man you make a great argument, ever think about running for office!

    Face the facts, Bonds wouldn't have 700 or maybe even 600 without roids! He still is and always will
    be inferior to Williams.

    JS
  • AxtellAxtell Posts: 10,037 ✭✭
    If you put Ruth in today's game of diluted pitching, strength management, nutritionists, and the live ball era, and he'd have hit 1000 home runs. What he was able to do in a time when pitching was so dominant and the ball was so dead is amazing.

    The fact that Bonds has done what he's done in a few years really doesn't impress me all that much. Is it any wonder why the 73rd HR ball went for a fraction of what Mac's 70th HR ball did?

    If you want to put Bonds into proper perspective, why not look at career slugging and OPS (what the best GM's in baseball do):

    OPS(slugging + OBP) Slugging

    Ruth (career) 1.1636 .6897

    Bonds (career through end of 2003) 1.0352 .6021

    And if you thought Bonds was the active leader in those two categories, you'd be wrong again. Todd Helton is the active leader in both slugging and OPS (as well as active leader in batting average) and yes playing in Colorado helps his home stats, but Bonds isn't even a career .300 hitter.

    So before we get carried away and award Bonds as the 'best player ever' award, there should be some realistic insight put on his game. With the exception of 2002, he's been abysmal in the postseason. He has a career .984 fielding percentage (definitely average, no matter what those popularity contests (err I mean gold glove awards) say), he is more than 500 RBI behind Aaron on the all-time list, and doesn't even rank in the top 100 all time in batting average.

    Keep in mind that Aaron never hit over 50 HR's in a season; Aaron is a career .305 hitter who dwarfs Bonds in not only RBI but total bases: 6856 to 5253.

    Give me either Ruth or Aaron any day of the week over that cheatin' bum Bonds.
  • JerseyJersey Posts: 542
    >>take it over to the open fourm, this board is for serious baseball talk<<

    On the subject, I think that BigKid's video sign-off (or whatever you call it) is offensive.
    Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from the wise.

  • 1420sports1420sports Posts: 3,473 ✭✭✭
    So is George W ....
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