Johnny Bench's toughest regular card? Look at this hammer price!
jrdolan
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
I would have guessed 1971 was the hardest to find in high grade, and I guess it is since there are only a few PSA 9 copies. But 1981 Topps with its notorious bad centering and ink smears has to rank right up there.
Look at this auction where a 1981 Bench PSA 9 closed at $167.50. SMR claims the average sale price for this card is $12.
I think this particular sale is a bit of a fluke, with two VERY determined collectors driving the price way up with astronomical snipes, but SMR has no clue about this and some other condition-rare cards in the '70s and '80s. The fact that this card fetched this much cash -- even with its centering a bit off and some ink smearing on Johnny's name -- shows how much demand there really is for the few PSA 9 examples.
Look at this auction where a 1981 Bench PSA 9 closed at $167.50. SMR claims the average sale price for this card is $12.
I think this particular sale is a bit of a fluke, with two VERY determined collectors driving the price way up with astronomical snipes, but SMR has no clue about this and some other condition-rare cards in the '70s and '80s. The fact that this card fetched this much cash -- even with its centering a bit off and some ink smearing on Johnny's name -- shows how much demand there really is for the few PSA 9 examples.
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Comments
<< <i>$167 is a bargain. they usually sell for $300 >>
If so, why is SMR $12? Actually the last two to sell on eBay (from this same seller) went for right about SMR, because the buyers got to the seller early. I know, because I was one of them. Wanna bet the seller NOW has some idea what this card is really worth in PSA 9? I would like to see those auctions where they sold for $300.
You may be right about more PSA 9's of this card starting to emerge. After all, the last three sold came from this very seller and the pop. report says there are only 13 total. If he keeps popping this card out there in PSA 9, that would prove he's got a nice run of 1981 vending.
i'm not sure why this card is so tough- someone on here (Gator05 or something) said they went through over 100,000 81 Topps cards- they didn't find a single PSA 9 worthy Bench. i doubt the pop will explode on this card any time soon, as it's truly a condition rarity.
those of you who know me, know that i keep a very close eye on all things "johnny bench"
smr on this card (for now) is way low. no surprises there. the registry grade weight on this card is 1.25 which is also low, considering
these cards until recently were selling around and above $250 (for psa-9).
i personally am not going to spend that much, for a card that has a grade weight of 1.25
you can get a psa-10 disc for about $20 and the grade weight is a 2
just a few months ago the pop. report on this card was like 8 or 9, so it has gone up in the last few months.
i pay very little attention to the smr.
just a couple tidbits.
your friend, lee
MY #1 RANKED JOHNNY BENCH MASTER SET (over 70 pics)
charlie
Heck, rather spend 7 or 8 bucks for a 81 rack instead of 5 bucks for a pack of some new crap.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
<< <i>the seller, gusscardsandtickets, sold one to Bernie Carlen (PlayBall) for like $8. i don't think he had any idea what the card was actually worth. >>
The first one Gus put out there, I bought for $8 plus shipping, so just a smidge less than SMR. The second one sold on the first day of listing when
that buyer, too, persuaded Gus to end early for the same deal. I didn't realize it was Bernie. It was all perfectly legal and within eBay rules; we made the inquiry and then placed bids; Gus stopped the auctions and sold to the high bidder, as he is allowed to do. I bet he received early offers this time as well, but must have gone to school on this card. Amazing that out of 13 PSA 9's, Gus had at least 3 of them. That was some vending or wax box he popped!
<< <i>i'm not sure why this card is so tough- someone on here (Gator05 or something) said they went through over 100,000 81 Topps cards- they didn't find a single PSA 9 worthy Bench. i doubt the pop will explode on this card any time soon, as it's truly a condition rarity. >>
I have examined nearly 2 dozen raw 1981 Topps Bench, the best that could be hoped for any of them was PSA 8 ... and therefore not worth spending the money to grade. Centering was generally awful. A board member generously sent me a nicely centered one as a present, but its corners were 8 at best, as he warned me. Ink smearing was always present to some degree on the ones I have seen. Perhaps the small amount of smearing on these 9's is as good as it gets. There are no 10's. Yet.
Below are my PSA 9 as well as the best raw example I own, in terms of centering and minimal smearing (but the corners won't pull a 9).
Hey, Lee. Was hoping you'd join in! Yeah, a lot of items in the Bench registry have absurd weights, especially some very low pop. items.
grabbed anything nice lately, benchwise ??
your moving up fast my friend !!
i`m still waiting for additions to the master set.
your friend, lee
This is after the October awards, of course, as BJ as informed me. Maybe even early next year. I guess they're working on the new registry software and aren't doing any new sets or additions right now. Hey, wanna join me as a charter member of the Reds Team Card registry? I warn you, I have a good head start ...
honestly john if you suprise me with any new bench items, well, i`ll be surprised !!
i`ll have to pass on the reds team registry, i`ve jumped into a new registry thats going to be a beast. 288 cards and 1938 issue !!
my money will only stretch so far !!!
see ya in the trenches, lee
It just seems like now the attention will shift to the 1969, 1971 and 1973 Topps Bench cards, all of which are pretty tough in their own right. Obviously - on the basis of all we've heard and seen, this is one of Bench's rarest/hardest regular issue cards. However, now that there is over a dozen of them, I can't imagine that they will continue to sell in the three figure range. Just my thoughts.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
mikeschmidt: I agree with you that only so many collectors care about owning a 1981 Bench PSA 9. As we saw tonight, there's still at least one person who's willing to pay $150+ for it, and still others who bid up into the $50+ range. I was shocked at the final bid today, until goodriddance and speeder said they've been selling at $250 to $300, and I was doubly surprised. I only knew about the two most recent buys, mine and PlayBall's, and it turns out THOSE were the flukes. I knew they hardly ever came up for sale, and thought they were selling for maybe twice or three times SMR. But TWENTY-FIVE times SMR? Holy .... Kinda reinforces my opinion that some parts of SMR don't get updated very often. I wish they'd just acknowledge that.
I think more than anything I would disregard SMR. They are so far off on so many prices - with the modern (e.g. post 1970) card market, they take no account of low population star cards, and they greatly overestimate other cards that have had surging populations.
I did win the second one that hit E-Bay. However, I did not contact the seller to close the auction. He ended it on his own (about 30 minutes after I bid), and sold it to me for the $7.99 opening bid. I just figured that he knew it was a weak 9 at best, and decided that a buyer spending $8 would be less likely to kick up a fuss that a buyer spending $167.50.
Gator05 had the first three PSA 9 Bench's, and sold them in the $25-$40 range, IIRC. He was lucky and got them pretty quick, so he didn't think they were that hard at the time. He later crossed a BGS 9 into a PSA 9, and received 5 unique offers all over $200.
The winner of this particular Bench is a board member here, and from what he has stated in the past, I can't imagine he'll be happy with this card.
As far as difficulty, I doubt it's even in the top 50 in the 1981 Topps set. However, there has been so much talk on these boards in the past on this particular card, that it seems to have taken on a life of it's own. It goes to show the power of this message board, and the amount of people who post or just "lurk".
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
dgf
Your comparison between 82 Flr and 81 tps is flawed. The difference is that I, alone, can literally double the pop in PSA 9 or 10 for 82 Fleer in the course of weeks. Meanwhile there have been dozens of collectors doing everything possible to unearth this Bench card and it has been slim pickin's. The card is not impossible--we need to keep perspective here--but the best never comes cheap, especially when it's a hard to locate HOF'er.
dgf
Bernie,
I suspect I may not be happy with the card as well. It will be, however, at least my second-best 81 Bench. The TB centering looks a bit skewed and the color doesn't present well in the scan. I've been pleasantly surprised before, but I won't hold my breath on this one. You have the scoop correct on Matt's experiences with this card, though I'll never be convinced the BGS copy is legit. Everytime I asked him about Bench he'd say "...dude, I'll get you your Bench." As time went by, however, and we both broke cases and wax and vending, etc. and neither of us pulled even a strong NM/MT copy his tune changed. When Matt can't find you a nice 81 topps card, you've got a problem.
dgf
<< <i>You have the scoop correct on Matt's experiences with this card, though I'll never be convinced the BGS copy is legit. >>
Amen to that! I don't want to disparage Matt or the buyer of the card, but I bought 4 BGS 81 star cards (2 9.5's and 2 9's), and all 4 came back "Evid Trim".
Is the Lynn the other star card you need, or did you get Matt to sell you one of his? As for the entire set, he got stuck at about 85% complete, and I seem to be stuck at the same place. This set is turning into a nightmare. Case after case, box after box, I'm going to wind up spending more on this set than my Play Ball set.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
dgf
Bernie: Sorry about the assumption on how your auction ended. I saw it end soon after it started and just figured you made the same deal I did. At any rate, Gus clearly didn't realize the selling power of this card in PSA 9, weak or otherwise. Not until the third one, anyway. Mine has nice centering but a bit more smearing around the name than I would like to see in a 9 so I guess you could say it is weak too. I wonder what this card would go for if it had great centering, great corners, AND no smears! I haven't seen one with all three attributes.
frazier: I know what you mean about paying what it takes to get that card you want. You think SMR is clueless about this card? Look at another Bench that sold tonight, a 1970 #464 All-Star PSA 8. It sold for $426 and SMR claims the average sale price is $30!
Fisk PSA 10 I Won!
For you 1981 Topps guys, Good Price???
Thanks,
Glen
dgf
ChicagoGlen,
I was relatively surprised at the hammer price. Especially since the underbidder is usually very cost-conscious in his bids. Gus had 5 or so PSA 10's going off that day, and when I saw you as the high bidder on the Fisk and I knew you collected him, I backed off the card. See, these boards are good for something! My likely bid would have been around $75, so I wouldn't have won anyway. I wish he provided better scans on his auctions, because some are even tough to judge centering. I'm glad you liked the card.
jrdolan,
No sweat. I was afraid the people tracking the Bench would think that. But oh well. My experience with Bench cards is that some are poorly centered, some have that nasty print smear, and the ones that are centered and free of print defects, are always on the top of the rack, and have one whole side rolled up. Ugh!
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
FYI I have sold 2 1981 Topps Bench graded PSA 9 on Ebay. The first one sold for $307 on 3/16/04 and the second sold for $325 using Buy it Now on 6/17/04.
About 5 hours after i listed it i was receiving offers of about $50 to end the auction early. Luckilly i did not.
My experience with this card is that it is usually off-centered top to bottom and always has that nasty print smudge by Johnny's name.
On my most recent submission to PSA i received another PSA 9 which i will be auctioning on Ebay in the very near future.
MA
<< <i>FYI I have sold 2 1981 Topps Bench graded PSA 9 on Ebay. The first one sold for $307 on 3/16/04 and the second sold for $325 using Buy it Now on 6/17/04. >>
Thanks for that documentation of what people have been saying. It appears that Bernie and I were extraordinarily lucky. Gus I am sure is kicking himself for selling those two PSA 9's for $8 each plus shipping. It just astonishes me that SMR is so off on another planet on this and some other cards from the era. It's like these cards haven't been updated in years.
<< <i>My experience with this card is that it is usually off-centered top to bottom and always has that nasty print smudge by Johnny's name. >>
I agree, though I do have a solitary raw one with nice centering and very little smearing ... but only NM-MT corners (see above). Unfair that it would only grade 8 but actually be nicer overall than some of the 9's!
<< <i>On my most recent submission to PSA i received another PSA 9 which i will be auctioning on Ebay in the very near future. >>
I will be very interested in seeing what it goes for. I hope you come back and bring this thread to the top with an update when it sells.