Tired of Getting Hosed on Ebay for Raw Items

dalew

Well, my days of buying raw cards on ebay is over, since everytime I purchase items and send them to PSA for grading they usually come back "Not Holdered, Miscut." or "not authentic," or "no holder," etc.

Most recent submittal

Recent Submittal

and here is what I purchased which looked great:

Ebay Item

From now on, I'm only bidding on graded material.

Dale

dalew

Link didn't work.

Its submission 561355 - 44024

jrdolan

Well, bidding on raw cards where no scan is provided is like betting on the horse that's limping in the pre-race parade.

But in general I agree with you. You might get lucky a few times, but in general raw cards are bad news on eBay unless you know the seller. Unless the dealer specializes in raw cards and has a reputation (like Mickey's or BB Card Exchange), there's probably a reason why that desirable card is not graded. Especially if grading it would make it worth so much more than they're selling it for.

stevek

The guy has a feedback score of 6327 and a feedback rating of 99.8%. Easy to see why you trusted the auction. The scan was x'd out when I tried to look at it, but a reputabnle seller like this shouldn't be selling cards like these without clearly stating the flaws.

67standup

I keep track of how many items were worse than the condition stated, although most sellers are accurate, there have definitely been some disappointments. I'm wary of a seller that normally offers graded cards, and then offers a raw example in NM or better. Most likely he knows that it won't grade that high, or he tried, and received a poor grade or qualifier.

qualitycards

When I see nice vintage high grade raw cards on eBay, I always wonder why they aren't graded in the 1st place. ...jay

mikeschmidt

<< <i>When I see nice vintage high grade raw cards on eBay, I always wonder why they aren't graded in the 1st place. ...jay >>



Jay - I generally agree, but often on Ebay I see these GREAT items that were left in Grandpa's desk drawers and attics - and they usually turn out to be HUGE revenue-potential items for me. Who knew that there were so many grandparents out there that had a penchant for things like T-206 Wagners, Planks, and 1932 U.S. Caramel Freddie Lindstrom cards. Heck - I've even found some T-206 cards that include uncatalogued variations of Ty Cobb and/or other HOF fronts on backs that were heretofor not known to exist on real cards. You can make so much money buying such neat stuff from uninformed individuals who just happen to know exactly where to list the cards, who happen to have a hag for a wife, who happen to be liquidating for a divorce so the wife gets nothing, and simply don't have the time or energy for grading themselves. When people need cash quick - I'm there to take advantage of such buying opportunities - because so often in sportscards, you find these harried individuals who are eager to leave thousands on the table to make a quick flip. Heck, am I the only one out here who has flown to Europe to make substantial purchases at Toni's Sportscards? For my sake, I hope so - I want all those profits for myself!!!

Buccaneer

<< <i>When I see nice vintage high grade raw cards on eBay, I always wonder why they aren't graded in the 1st place. ...jay >>



Because there are still a lot of raw set collectors that would not pay $8-10 for a $2 card. For example, I would not buy any graded commons from you but if you had a bunch of raw NM commons, I would.

Buccaneer

By the way, when I was wasting money on eBay last year buying overgraded raw cards, I did have one good buy. I think it was from someone here where I got (3) 1963T 4th series commons and (2) 1963T hi#, each truly NM, for $2 each. That was just one very small diamond in a field of manure. Buying raws from Mick is a much better way to go, imo.

mikeschmidt

<< <i>By the way, when I was wasting money on eBay last year buying overgraded raw cards, I did have one good buy. I think it was from someone here where I got (3) 1963T 4th series commons and (2) 1963T hi#, each truly NM, for $2 each. That was just one very small diamond in a field of manure. Buying raws from Mick is a much better way to go, imo. >>



Steve:

Is buying $2 commons on Ebay really a good value for your collection after shipping and handling costs are added in? I'm just wondering. It often seems to me that in cards, etc. where the value is something close to de minimus, purchasing single examples on ebay and then having to essentially almost double the price in S&H doesn't really do much for value creation in the long run. Just a thought-

~ms

mikeschmidt

<< <i>Because there are still a lot of raw set collectors that would not pay $8-10 for a $2 card. For example, I would not buy any graded commons from you but if you had a bunch of raw NM commons, I would. >>



Steve: An excellent point - but Dale was ending up paying $8-$10 for a raw card once you include all the costs, fees, s&H of getting the card graded.

Dale - why/how were these cards miscut?! I'm a little perplexed by that, as it is not something that seems common with the 1936 S&S game issue

Buccaneer

<< <i>

<< <i>By the way, when I was wasting money on eBay last year buying overgraded raw cards, I did have one good buy. I think it was from someone here where I got (3) 1963T 4th series commons and (2) 1963T hi#, each truly NM, for $2 each. That was just one very small diamond in a field of manure. Buying raws from Mick is a much better way to go, imo. >>



Steve:

Is buying $2 commons on Ebay really a good value for your collection after shipping and handling costs are added in? I'm just wondering. It often seems to me that in cards, etc. where the value is something close to de minimus, purchasing single examples on ebay and then having to essentially almost double the price in S&H doesn't really do much for value creation in the long run. Just a thought-

~ms >>



MS: I went back to check the email and it appears that the total SH was $2.50. I think 50-cents a card was pretty good esp. since two of them were hi#. Perhaps not a great deal but when I was doing this, it was the best one I got. I don't even look for potential deals like this on eBay anymore so your point is well taken.

JusttheFacts

You need to factor in the cost of all the cards you are burned on in deciding whether it makes sense to buy $2 raw vs $8 graded. If 3 out of every 4 ebay purchases produces a card that doesn't make the grade, you have paid $8 to get one card that makes the grade. Add in shipping and that nasty taste left in your mouth and buying graded for $8 makes sense. If you are picking up raw at a show, it's a different story because you view the cards up close.

John

TheCARDKid

Ebay seller Aarons is the best raw dealer out there from my experience. If anything, they undergrade.

Has anyone else used them?

RG58

EBAY rules:

(1)for very reputable dealer-

raw grade (as advertised) - 1 grade= REAL (PSA/GAI) GRADE

(2)for unknown or unreputable dealer

raw grade (as advertised) - 2 grade= REAL (PSA/GAI) GRADE


A simple formula, duh!

Lesson: don't buy raw high grade cards on EBAY- you will get burned!

Most Nrmt/mt cards are really exmt (lucky if you get one nrmt!)

Most Nrmt cards advertised on EBAY are ex/exmt

most exmt cards are vg/vg-ex

Buccaneer

<< <i>EBAY rules:

(1)for very reputable dealer-

raw grade (as advertised) - 1 grade= REAL (PSA/GAI) GRADE

(2)for unknown or unreputable dealer

raw grade (as advertised) - 2 grade= REAL (PSA/GAI) GRADE


A simple formula, duh!

Lesson: don't buy raw high grade cards on EBAY- you will get burned!

Most Nrmt/mt cards are really exmt (lucky if you get one nrmt!)

Most Nrmt cards advertised on EBAY are ex/exmt

most exmt cards are vg/vg-ex >>



Yep.

onlychild

On the flip side of this is selling raw cards on ebay. I only sell raw because I have cards graded only for my personal collection.

With so many people getting burned and the endless new category options, I am lucky to get a buck or two for some decent cards, even though s & h is $1...this is why I rarely sell. Perhaps I am too honest in my descriptions or sell less than nrmt cards.

Sellers really should not give an opinion on a grade. As many of you know even the best collector can mis-grade or accidently let something slip by. Just as buying is a risk, selling raw is just not the way to go anymore.


My Auctions

DirtyHarry

I don't see anything wrong with suggesting a grade on a raw card, so long as you are honest with the description, warts and all. Scans of both sides should be included in the Ebay listing. Buyer satisfaction should be guaranteed. I have sold many mid-grade cards on Ebay that were not worth my while investing in the grading expense. If I think the card should sell for more than $25, I include a supersize link of the scan. But, that's just me. Don't give up - just hone into reputable sellers. Regards.

Ruthfan

Buying raw cards on Ebay is like playing those scratch off lottery tickets. Sometimes you can get really lucky, but most of the time its not really a winning situation.

I for one have been very fortunate in my raw Ebay purchases. I have purchased several cards that were raw and came back in high grade holders.

I purchased a 1959 Topps #478 Roberto Clemente from a seller about 3 years ago for $146.00. The seller listed it as Mint but when I got it I couldn't believe it. It was gorgeous and perfectly centered. It is now in a PSA 9 holder.

Last summer I purchased 4 cards from a seller who had nice size scans and even offered a money back guarantee. I talked to him on the phone and asked him why the cards had not been graded already and he stated that the cards were on consignment from an individual and that he did not want to deal with haveing them graded. One of the cards was a 1956 Topps #135 Mickey Mantle that I gave $900 for. I had it graded by PSA and came back as an 8 but I thought this card should utilize the half point scale with GAI as it was really close to a 9 so I decided submit it to GAI where it is now rests in a GAI 8.5 holder.

I also purchased a 1952 Topps Duke Snider for $500 that was perfectly centered and is now in an 8 holder. The other two cards were a 1952 Topps #122 Jackie Jensen and a 1965 Topps Football #176 checklist. Both cards were again perfectly centered and I gave about $260 for both and they now both rest in PSA 8 holders.

My latest was two cards I picked up off Ebay within the last 3-4 months and had graded at the National. I picked up a 1953 Topps Pee Wee Reese for $152 that the seller advertised as NM+. The card turned out to be much nicer than the photo and it is now in a PSA 8 holder. The second card is a 1955 Roberto Clemente rookie that the seller advertised Ex-Mt and that I bought for right around $600. It came back in a PSA 7 holder.

The few dealings I have had with cards that were severely overgraded or cards that I knew had been trimmed I have been able to return and get my money back.

Todd

AlbertanDude

I use Aaron all the time.......one of the best.......I buy tons of raw Hockey stuff from him.........Only disappointed
a couple of times out of a few hundred purchases and he is always quick to give a refund or a credit of some
sort!!

mickeys

This thread seems to come up a lot - generally stated as 'don't buy raw cards because if they would grade out, they would already be slabbed.'

One point is obvious - where do you think the slabbed cards, esp. the 1 of 1s, came from in the first place. Someone up the line was willing to take a chance that basically their 'grading eye' was better than the one they are buying from. We buy raw sets all the time and there always seems to at least some upside somewhere in the lot - for example we recently got 30 PSA 9 67 Philly footballers out of a nmt-nmmt set which was over 60% ex/mt due to centering. We had the set for almost a year - very disappointed in the overstated grading - before finally looking for the diamonds in that rough.

Second is don't forget the cost of grading itself. We have about 2000 1970 Topps commons, 1000 1968s, 1000 1969s and 1000 1972s which are lock 8s, borderline 9s. We sell these at $1.50 - $2.00 each because obviously it would make no sense to lay out $30,000 to grade all of these.

We've had terrible luck over the years and for the most part I agree with the comments about grade inflation on ebay. However, sometimes it's nothing venutred...

Buccaneer

<< <i>Second is don't forget the cost of grading itself. We have about 2000 1970 Topps commons, 1000 1968s, 1000 1969s and 1000 1972s which are lock 8s, borderline 9s. We sell these at $1.50 - $2.00 each because obviously it would make no sense to lay out $30,000 to grade all of these. >>



Mick, that (and for other reasons as well) is why you are my hero. I wouldn't have gotten anywhere close to about 20-25% complete on each of my 5 sets if it weren't for your philosophy on offering raw cards. I still shudder to think how incomplete my sets would be if 1) I had to buy all of the cards graded or 2) if you hadn't offered these cards at a fair value. To me (to repeat myself), a $2 NM card in a $10 PSA7 slab is still a $2 card.

pandrews

<< <i>This thread seems to come up a lot - generally stated as 'don't buy raw cards because if they would grade out, they would already be slabbed.'

One point is obvious - where do you think the slabbed cards, esp. the 1 of 1s, came from in the first place. Someone up the line was willing to take a chance that basically their 'grading eye' was better than the one they are buying from. We buy raw sets all the time and there always seems to at least some upside somewhere in the lot - for example we recently got 30 PSA 9 67 Philly footballers out of a nmt-nmmt set which was over 60% ex/mt due to centering. We had the set for almost a year - very disappointed in the overstated grading - before finally looking for the diamonds in that rough.

Second is don't forget the cost of grading itself. We have about 2000 1970 Topps commons, 1000 1968s, 1000 1969s and 1000 1972s which are lock 8s, borderline 9s. We sell these at $1.50 - $2.00 each because obviously it would make no sense to lay out $30,000 to grade all of these.

We've had terrible luck over the years and for the most part I agree with the comments about grade inflation on ebay. However, sometimes it's nothing venutred... >>



well said.

SDavid

With vintage, I've had the best luck with starter sets and lots. If you're patient, you can get them cheap enough that, even if they're overgraded a bit, it's still a good deal. I've never bought one that I couldn't make a profit off of just by breaking them up a little bit and usually there'll at least be some keepers. I know of at least one dealer (codyp2000) who seems to make his living by busting raw sets purchased off of ebay, so they can't all be scams. I'm not sure when that guy sleeps, though.

With valuable modern cards, it's a little easier, but not as easy as you'd think. Even though the cards are naturally in better condition, they also have to grade higher for you to profit. The main thing I look for is box breaks. If someone is listing 15 rookies from 15 different sets, the "from pack to toploader" line is probably a lot of bull. Most likely, they're getting rid of the cards they purchased that weren't gradeable. But the guy who's listing 15 different cards from the same box is a safer gamble, from my experience. Then it's just a matter of requesting decent scans if they're not already provided.

baseballcardsonly

I have bought several raw cards on ebay and it has been hit or miss, but there are several good raw dealers out there that I trust ie) Waverly and Codyp come to mind, but you have to take into consideration the centering on the card they sell, since they don't. I have bought about half my high number 1972's from those 2 guys and about 90% have been correctly graded. Also make sure the sellers takes returns. I have sent back about a dozen of so cards that I thought didn't meet the grade listed.





New to the forums, but learning from you guys everyday!

Working on 1972's (need only 21 highs to complete)

Mark

purelyPSA

See, I disagree. Getting hosed 10 times is fine with me if I can bag one great one. For example, I've probably bought 40-50 1961 Topps cards lately, raw, on eBay. Some sucked. However, I have probably four cards that might merit 9s that I bought raw out of those 50. One of them is a Charlie Maxwell card that should 9 easy, and if I'm right, that's a big enough chunk of change to cover every card I purchased, because that card sells for $30 (well above average) as an 8. Another is a Leaders card that sold in 9 for $140 last week. I'll take my chances.

SDavid

I just wanted to add that some of the best raw modern cards I've bought were just called "near mint" by the seller or they had no grade whatsoever, just a description. Conversely, the ones that scream "Mint! Mint!" or "Gem Mint!" would usually be 8's if you're lucky.