Doubled die question

XpipedreamR

In listings of doubled dies and repunched dates and mintmarks, I see references to Stages A, B, and C.

Could someone elaborate on this terminology?



Thanks

greghansen

Well, I'll throw out an answer and let others correct and/or add to my response.

Stage A (also sometimes referred to as Early Die Stage, or 'EDS' for short) refers to a coin that was one of the first or early coins minted with the die. It will not show evidence of die fatique and in the case of RPD's and RPM's, often the variety will show best on these coins since the die detail is still crisp.

Stage B (middle die stage) will show some die wear or detail and the RPD or RPM may not be as crisp or clear as early coins. Encompasses most coins made with the die.

Stage C (Late Die Stage, a/k/a LDS) will show die fatige and if the variety is a minor one, may be hard to pick up due to die wear. Coins struck with these dies are among the last minted with the die.

Actually with some varieties...particulary die breaks...the late stage coins are more pursued since the break is larger and signifies the die is about to fail, or the error is about to get caught and the dies replaced. With other varieties like RPD and RPM (which I don't know much about), I would assume the early die stages are more sought after since the variety is far more crisp and identifiable.

Spinynorman

Die state an die stage get confused a lot. like in here

Simply, die state is just the linear progression of the wear of the die that shows in the coins struck. It goes from very early die state (VEDS) to very late die state (VLDS).

Die stage is a marker of an event that occured in the production of a particular variety. It is usually coupled with the die state that the die was in when the event occured.

A highly exaggerated scenario for example...
Say a new, doubled, obverse die was produced with a noticeable gouge in it.
Stage A marker for the DDO would be the gouge and die state would be VEDS.
The gouge magically disappears after a little use...
Stage B marker for the DDO would be missing gouge (EDS) (the die state now happens to be EDS)
A few thousand more coins are struck and then the reverse die breaks...
Stage C marker for the DDO would be the reverse die break (MDS). (the reverse die break happened during the time that the die had worn to mid die state)
The reverse die break is not noticed for a while, but is then replaced with another slightly used die...
Stage D reverse die change. Obverse LDS, Reverse EDS.

XpipedreamR

Do these recognizable changes always occur...does every coin have a designated A, B, and C? Who decides what characteristics are assigned to a particular coin for each die stage?

Spinynorman

Usually Stage A is reserved for the markers present in early die state (VEDS coin are rare to find). If no coins are found in that state, then it will just say something like "EDS (unconfirmed)". If nothing dramatic happens in production of the variety, then Stage B will probably be the markers present on mid die state (MDS) coins. Stage C could be the markers on LDS coins, if different. The attributers (Coneca, NCADD, Coppercoins, etc...) assign the stages, so it could be different between them.

XpipedreamR

Very interesting...thanks