Another BGS 10 for kkoenig75......big yawn

EagleEyeKid

I guess it doesn't surprise me anymore as it's becoming routine.
For anyone who collects hockey; you'd agree that the
00 Black Diamond were just garbage out of packs.
Very tough to even get a mint 9. Gem mints are pretty impossible.
His latest masterpiece Mr. Trimmer
Do you think he'll give me the BGS serial #
so I can forward and backtrack to see how many
got 0.0 in that batch?

helionaut

The Mauer shown is 3335434. and the ones immediately around it were zeroes. Go through a few more Front Row cards and you get a Dwayne Wade sig 9.5 and then a zero on a Chris Bosh sig. It's either all or nothing with this guy. The Gaborik looks like something around the 3280540 range, but I can't find it. There is a big run of 10s in this range, though, so it might be there somewhere.

Vincecarder

He's got alot of PSA 10's in his auctions as well. If he trims, he does a good job because PSA isn't catching it either.....

carew4me

You clowns sound jealous.

Over 5000 happy customers, 99.9% feedback.

Concentrate on collecting and stop paying Gomer of Ebayberry.

phreakydancin

carew, are you suggesting that it's not a problem that there is a trimmer out there who is able to trim his cards in such a way that it's indetectable by the experts? More like over 5000 suckers. Caveat emptor

carew4me

That is alot of suckers. If the guy is that good at fooling 2 companies....

Vincecarder

This dealer has constantly had cards that are VERY difficult grades. All you have to do is search some of the serial numbers of the cards (ie look them up in sequence) and you will see strings of (Evidence of trimming, not holdered) between a few Gem Mints or Pristine grades. With modern cards you trim or doctor cards without the best graders knowing the difference.

TheRoach

The guy is known EVERYWHERE as a card trimmer. Screw Carew4me. KKoenig trims cards, and that is all there is to it. I notice that Carew4me takes the side of the villain too often. Look at old posts.

It's not a strange coincidence, Carewme. The guy has a very good laser, and he fools many companies. PSA? Ha! They allow tons of trimmed cards to be slabbed. After al, what are the requirements/qualifications to become a PSA grader? Any of us can be one if we apply. It's a joke. There is no degree that certifies anyone to become a "proffesional grader". This market will come tumbling down one day. The problem is, many people will lose their a$$ when it does.



TheRoach

Stone193

<< <i>You clowns sound jealous >>


Mr. Carew
Why do you persist on referring to people as clowns. You can get your point across without resorting to such rhetoric. If people want to look into how business is conducted on ebay, I think that is their prerogative as consumers. If you think sometimes people go over the top, why can't you just state it that way? Overall, many people have saved small fortunes by sharing information about potentially unscrupulous ebay transactions. Isn't that what this whole forum is about? Communication...the exchange of ideas, information, thoughts, feelings...and yes, sometimes we just give a person in need of a little solace, our time.
Mike

Doppelganger

I guess if he does trim, all the rejects get cracked out of their holders and are thrown back on the open market through an account that sells "raw" cards.

Roach is right. What are the qualifications to be a grader....hmmm....this looks like a ten, what do ya think....grader two...yeah...looks good to me.

Do they attend Grader University????? Get a Masters in grading????

It really is absurd when you think about it.

SDavid

This dealer has constantly had cards that are VERY difficult grades. All you have to do is search some of the serial numbers of the cards (ie look them up in sequence) and you will see strings of (Evidence of trimming, not holdered) between a few Gem Mints or Pristine grades.

Any idea where he sells the cards that get rejected by PSA? Does he have a different id that anyone is aware of?

BTW, with Beckett, you can specify minimum grades below which the card won't get slabbed. The grades will post as 0's. I emailed beckett about this months ago when I saw that a bgs/bccg dealer had a ton of 0's from both companies.

Snowball

<< <i>Any idea where he sells the cards that get rejected by PSA? Does he have a different id that anyone is aware of? >>



I heard they have different ebayIDs use for buying and keep on changing them.


I was thinking about the same thing. I bought from somebody before (wasn't from that ebayID) and his name came up (not from the NARU tishen95). I was thinking cardboardgems1?? I think they used to have same auction design page and I remember cardboardgems1 used to state they have 2 loc. (VA and MD). I might be wrong. This was a long time ago so I'm not sure. Might just be a coincidence.

kehfee

If its been holdered by a legitimate company do I really have to worry? To be honest when I buy graded cards I don't even look at them that closely. How many others do?

Doppelganger

Re-reading this post I think I'm as offended by the holdering of "allegedly" tampered cards as I am with the people who feel no shame or crime in what they "may" be doing. I'm concerned that there is absolutely no sense of concern before they send these cards in for "certification". I mean, if tampered cards get holdered, what is it exactly PSA/BGS/SGC/GAI are doing or doing about it????

EagleEyeKid

I mean, if tampered cards get holdered, what is it exactly PSA/BGS/SGC/GAI are doing or doing about it????

I don't think there is a whole lot that they can do about it.
Discussions have been made as to ban certain submitters for future submissions, and red flagging the whole submission because the first 10 cards are trimmed out of the 100 submitted will never take effect. As brought up in Joe Orlando's little piece "Whacked Job"; a lot of these guys are pure artists, while the majority are of them are just butchers. Trimmed cards are always going to pass through. Whatever the protocol these graders use for detecting these trim jobs only go so far. I think in the long run (within 5 years), the whole grading market is going to go flat......this is for modern stuff. Vintage will be fine. I don't think anything graded within the last 3 years can be trusted as much as too many are getting too good with the blade. I personally haven't bought any gem mint graded cards in over a year from any reputable company. (Funny to use the word "reputable" now). I have decided for the sake of piece of mind, and just to have in my collection to just turn to lower grades if I really wanted that specific card. Less cost and lower risk anyways.

TheRoach

This isn't the first thread regarding this matter, and it won't be the last. From my understanding, the following people on Ebay have been ACCUSED time and time again for trimming cards. I have sat through many discussions regarding this issue and I have no doubts in my mind that the following people COULD BE trimming cards. I have no facts at all, so this is just my opinion.

Kardsharks
Tishen85
Unklbnz
Shoeless Joe Jackson
KKoenig

Again, I have no facts to prove it, but from listening in on numerous conversations, these people, in my opinion, are trimming cards, or involved with someone that does it for them. Just look at the obscene amount of BGS 9.5 and BGS 10 cards they are selling. It's almost impossible to have such luck. Rumor is that alleged card trimmers walk around at card shows and pick up all the raw cards they think they can "alter" into a BGS 9.5 or 10. They supposedley travel with a portable, mini laser device that can slice off the smallest portion of a card. If they see a high end card with slight edge chipping, but otherwise a beautifulcard, they just dice off the minimum needed to erase that chipping.

BGS is terrible for garding cards that have been trimmed. 90% of the people in this forum are aware of it. I confronted Beckett about this issue about 6-9 months ago at a show that KallMaloneSay was at. He knows a hell of a lot more than me about the guys that travel from show to show picking up raw cards that are damaged, but somehow have that very card in their display case or on Ebay shortly after they purchase it, but now it's in a BGS 9.5 or BGS 10 holder.

The grading industry can be very corrupt. Way too much $$$ to be made. When that happens the presence of greed and dishonest business come into play. If you had the power to make someone's '86 Fleer Michael Jordan a Gem Mint grade even though it was more like a Mint grade, it would get tempting to do it if $1,000-$2,000 was thrown your way to do it. That seems like what happens to me. A BGS 9 Jordan RC may sell for $2,500 or so. If it's in a BGS 9.5 holder, it may go for $10,000 or more. The HUGE DIFFERENCE IN VALUE HAPPENS BETWEEN THE MINT TO GEM MINT GRADES. Even higher if the card is graded BGS 10, PRISTINE.

It's true that as long as it is holdered, you will more than likely be able to sell it for what the grade is, but my worry is that the FBI or someone breaks some big news on major scamming involved with the grading industry, and the market just crashes. No one would wnat to touch the graded cards again after that. That is why I never spend too much money over the cost of the card in an ungraded form if I must buy a graded card. In other words, I buy PSA 9 or BGS 9 graded cards. If the market does crash then, I am not at a major loss then. Some of the BGS 9.5 or BGS 10 cards sell for over 20 times the ungraded book value. I only get cards graded now so I can reap the benefits of possibly getting that type money if any of my cards grade out GEM MINT. I flip them right away. Always!





TheRoach

EagleEyeKid

Well said Roach.

Stone193

<< <i>Well said Roach. >>


I agree Eagle.
Is it my understanding that this is discussed very extensively over on the Beckett forum?
I recall months ago where Beachbum went into this in great detail - in fact it was almost confusing trying to keep up with the names and stuff.
Mike
edit: 3rd grade grammar

EagleEyeKid

Is it my understanding that this is discussed very extensively over on the Beckett forum?

It's a zoo over there. Names are thrown out in the open; BGS doesn't defend itself, etc. This discussion will never end. I think in the meantime for all of us who are concerned is to try and keep tabs of these guys and keep a list so you don't get burned and waste your $. If you're going to purchase high $ cards in high grades; make sure you know the source.

(Back to the History channel......They're showing the "Band of Brothers" series)

Niters!

pandrews

<< <i>That is alot of suckers. If the guy is that good at fooling 2 companies.... >>



if the guy is a trimmer, he deserves a tall tree and a short piece of rope..

but carew4me is right.. if these cards are ending up in PSA holders, we're all a bunch of suckers..



<< <i>(Back to the History channel......They're showing the "Band of Brothers" series) >>



EEK - Great series! I have the DVD boxed set..

slvnumber2

I noticed the same thing at the National and commented to my wife that certain tables seem to always have the BGS 9.5's and 10's and PSA 10's. There are a lot of good reputable dealers out there in the business, but if there is a lot of trimming and tampering going on with cards it will make the grading card companies less reputable and graded cards will go down in price. All it will take is for a WIWAG like incident with modern cards and evidence of a large trimming contingency out there and the market will be damaged immensely.

jrdolan

<< <i>All it will take is for a WIWAG like incident with modern cards and evidence of a large trimming contingency out there and the market will be damaged immensely. >>


Perhaps, and maybe that would be a good thing to happen to the bloated, out-of-control modern card market. But there has ALREADY been a WIWAG-like incident, we all know what it was, and PSA and the graded vintage card market don't seem the worse for wear now after taking that hit. I have a feeling BGS would weather the storm even better, with so many millions of teenagers spending their allowances on the modern stuff. Only a small percentage of them have ever heard that some BGS cards might be trimmed.

CADILLACN97

i like to have cards graded, and buy graded cards just for the piece of mind. and i'm not in it to make big bucks, it is a hobby to me. but what if 3rd party grading takes the plunge? it's not like these things are encased by NASA. crack the slab and you then have a raw mint card. do people think that the card is going to be worthless because it's slabbed? maybe if you spent $2k on a card that is worth $100 you might be upset, but i guess that would be your fault for buying the holder, not the card anyway. the only difference between an 8 and 9 is what, one 'flawed' corner that came out of the pack like that. 9s and 10s only depend on what kind of day the grader was having (or apparently how good the grader can tell if a card is shorter than the other 3 million copies in existence). i think 10s are a fluke and are just glorified 9s, that would be 9s on any other day. if one can't tell the difference between a 9 and 10, without a forensic scientist, then you just paid $20 for a card, and $980 for a plastic holder.

carew4me

Dont get hysterical gents...its a hobby ...that can be full of potholes

Pandrews made the best statement to come from this thread.


If your international band trim-busters is so sure they have another shylock then...

and here it comes.....

golden nuggets of wisdom.....

get ready to be happy again.....
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DONT BUY FROM THE CLOWN!