Denmark's First Official Proof set
cosmicdebris
Posts: 12,332 ✭✭✭
This Special News Update concerns the recent news that the National Bank of Denmark will release an official proof coin set in October - the first ever from Denmark. As far as we know today, the issue limit is only 3,000 sets, and the item will contain all seven of the Danish circulating coins in proof quality (25 and 50 øre, as well as 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 krone). At this point we do not know which of the 20-kroners that will be in the set (regular issue, wedding issue or any of the 2004 tower issues), if there is a medal included in the set, or how the coins will be presented. We do know that the set will be very expensive, with a retail price around $175.
Bill
09/07/2006
09/07/2006
0
Comments
So this set should be worth how much in several years? $175 ain't cheap but it's an awful small mintage.
is that you end up being governed by inferiors. – Plato
First DAMMIT BOY! 25/9/05 (Finally!)
" XpipedreamR is cool because you can get a bottle of 500 for like a dollar. " - Aspirin
Danish collectors have been asking for proof sets for more than two decades. The mint set from 1987 was actually struck in a proof-like quality and became a major success, but apparently that did not make an impression! Not until now, that is. Things take time in Denmark.
I can't find anything about this on the home page of the National Bank. Do you have a link for those informations?
Marcel
<< <i>the issue limit is only 3,000 sets,
So this set should be worth how much in several years? $175 ain't cheap but it's an awful small mintage. >>
Tough to say. Ten years ago these mintages would have mostly swamped the demand,
but now there are large numbers of people who collect recent dated coins. I'd guess that
after a brief run-up the price will trail off to near issue price and then begin a slow but sus-
tained increase for years. How high it gets will be largely determined by the growth of the
modern market but this could be substantial.
<< <i>I hate it when authorities create scarcity. The Bulgarian National Bank is doing the same with the colorized copper-nickel commemoratives and as a result they are now trading at approx 60 leva with an issue price of just 7. >>
This is why i don't collect modern coins. I just hate coins made for collectors.
We will post pictures of the set on our web site www.scandmint.com as soon as they are available.
09/07/2006
<< <i>
This is why i don't collect modern coins. I just hate coins made for collectors. >>
Of course you realize that not all modern coins were made for collectors. Indeed many have been
so neglected by collectors and abused by the issuing authority that they are difficult to find in any
grade. Large numbers of dates and/or type coins issued since 1950 are scarce or rare in unc.
Just as with older coin, moderns are made for a variety of reasons and some are far more legitimate
than others. While it may well be true that a larger percentage of coin types are made for less legit-
imate reasons than in the past this detracts nothing from the new Danish proof set. These are simply
proof versions of circulting coinage.
As long as we're dumping the bath water, we may as well throw out all the proofs made over the millenia.
<< <i>
As long as we're dumping the bath water, we may as well throw out all the proofs made over the millenia. >>
I don't collect any proofs, i don't generally like em. I like coins in GVF to AEF always circulation versions. (The only exception i have made is for the Gothic Crown, just cos i like the design... i'd much prefer it if it wasn't a proof though).
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>I hate it when authorities create scarcity. The Bulgarian National Bank is doing the same with the colorized copper-nickel commemoratives and as a result they are now trading at approx 60 leva with an issue price of just 7. >>
This is why i don't collect modern coins. I just hate coins made for collectors. >>
Me too. I rarely buy commems, unless they are cheap semi-circulating ones (the copper-nickel issues of Poland from the 1960s and 1970s come to mind).
First DAMMIT BOY! 25/9/05 (Finally!)
" XpipedreamR is cool because you can get a bottle of 500 for like a dollar. " - Aspirin
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I hate it when authorities create scarcity. The Bulgarian National Bank is doing the same with the colorized copper-nickel commemoratives and as a result they are now trading at approx 60 leva with an issue price of just 7. >>
This is why i don't collect modern coins. I just hate coins made for collectors. >>
Me too. I rarely buy commems, unless they are cheap semi-circulating ones (the copper-nickel issues of Poland from the 1960s and 1970s come to mind). >>
The only modern coins (post 1950) i was ever interested in were .900 US Silver coins, silver proof £2 coins of the UK (Normal reverse only), only cos i like the design... but i can't bring myself to collect them, i used to have a 1997 one but i sold it. I have a slight fondness for UK 10 pences (1992-1997) too but i don't go out of my way to collect them.
I don't really collect coins later than 1799 these days, and i'm finding coins of the 1500 and 1600s more interesting. I love Medieval coins and i'm also getting drawn towards saxon coins.
Why spend $175 on a modern proof set when you can buy a decent Edward I Silver penny from the 13th century for less with a nice tone?
Hammered gold is always a nice one too! One day i will have an hammered gold Angel!
I just keep going further back, what's next Alexander the Great?
<< <i>
The only modern coins (post 1950) i was ever interested in were .900 US Silver coins, silver proof £2 coins of the UK (Normal reverse only), only cos i like the design... but i can't bring myself to collect them, i used to have a 1997 one but i sold it. I have a slight fondness for UK 10 pences (1992-1997) too but i don't go out of my way to collect them.
I don't really collect coins later than 1799 these days, and i'm finding coins of the 1500 and 1600s more interesting. I love Medieval coins and i'm also getting drawn towards saxon coins.
Why spend $175 on a modern proof set when you can buy a decent Edward I Silver penny from the 13th century for less with a nice tone?
>>
This is just my point; it's you and everyone else. Sure spending $175 for a brand new proof set may
or may not be wise even for someone who collects these coins, but what about the thousands of diff-
erent types of coins made since 1950. Since these coins have been ignored, no one seems to be able
to differentiate between the common ones and the rarities. Catalogs tend to just list them all for a dol-
lar or two because they don't have a clue either.
It's not as though one has to look long and hard to discover these, one merely has to look at all in many
cases. This is not to say one shouldn't spend $175 on a nice Edwardian penny since any real numisma-
tist can appreciate such a coin. But what about a 1950 Algerian 100 F in ChBU or even just unc. In fact,
this coin can be pretty tough even in VF. It seems impossible to believe that future collectors won't desire
such coins so why can't present collectors?
We've probably allowed every single example of the 1977 US quarter with a type "d" reverse to be worn
in circulation. Indeed, this is not a well recognized variety simply because few people have looked at the
coin and are aware of its existence. It's so hard to find even in circulation that few exist at all and they are
typically F or VF at best.
Many thousands of such examples are probably possible but who knows what they are? Who is saving all
these coins for the future? Certainly it is far beyond the capabilities of one person to identify and locate
all the rarities from the last half century. In the mean time these coins are being destroyed in circulation
and in furnaces all over the world.
In the many centuries of coin production and collection this situation is probably unprecedented.
I can understand your point if the argument concerned a mint set worth $1.75 and produced to meet demand. I strongly disapprove of artificial scarcities created just to hassle collectors. It is my strong conviction that Denmark has the resources to make 300,000 sets and sell them for $10. They'd even make more money that way!
First DAMMIT BOY! 25/9/05 (Finally!)
" XpipedreamR is cool because you can get a bottle of 500 for like a dollar. " - Aspirin
<< <i>It's quite logical that the level of destruction is unprecedented and this simply is due to the fact that the last century or two have probably witnessed the production of more than 50% of all coins in history (in terms of varieties, not sheer size).
>>
People saved the old coins when they were issued largely because they were silver or gold. Even
the "small change" tended to be copper and often contained it's face value in metal. They not only
saved it as a store of value but many would collect and study it. Governments rarely called such coins
in because there was rarely much point in it. The coins simply disappeared into circulation and the
government coined more as needed. If there was a revaluation then people wouldn't send in their
old coin to be devalued, they'd find more of the old coin to save.
Since 1950 most coins are made of base metal and people did not save the coins. Collectors ignored
the coins because they usually replaced silver coins which were of far greater interest. When the coins
were no longer of any value they still appealed to the issuer for the metallic content and they were
often recalled and destroyed.
It is not merely the level of destruction which is unprecedented. It is also the fact that it involves most
every specimen of so many different types. Also unprecedented is that so many of these coins were
not studied or collected by numismatists so they do not exist in collections, museums or elsewhere.
Even more incredible is the attrition of uncirculated examples of many of these coins.
In a few days an official press release will confirm it - I will link to it once it's published.
Marcel
PDF link
The proof set will contain a copy of the largest Danish medal ever minted. If it is real size it will be seriously big - and that explains the price of the set. The medal was originally struck in silver (only very few in gold). If you are interested, there is a small article about the medal here:
heavy metal
Marcel
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
09/07/2006
<< <i>This is why i don't collect modern coins. I just hate coins made for collectors. >>
I pretty much agree, but I do own a few coins made for the collector and think they have a place.
WNC Coins, LLC
1987-C Hendersonville Road
Asheville, NC 28803
wnccoins.com
The 1913 Liberty Nickels and many other coins from the 1800s and early 1900s were made for collectors only. A lot of them made to order. Look at what they are worth now.
09/07/2006
<< <i><< I just hate coins made for collectors. >>
The 1913 Liberty Nickels and many other coins from the 1800s and early 1900s were made for collectors only. A lot of them made to order. Look at what they are worth now. >>
I wouldn't have collected those either.
it that most collectors don't like moderns made for circulation. Modern coins have never
appealed to a majority or even a sizable minority of collectors. One wouldn't expect all the
"new" coins from the last 55 years or longer to be in everyone's collection even if they were
common.
What's curious, what's different, and what's unprecedented is the apparently universal
aversion to these coins which has allowed some to be virtually entirely destroyed either
in circulation, in furnaces, or both.
It's fine not to collect such coins. There are many coins I don't collect and in no case is it
a statement about its collectibility. In no case do I think the coins are in some way un-
worthy because they are too common, too scarce, too old, too new, or too blue. If I ever
did discover a coin which I believed was unworthy of being collected I would not wear it
as a badge of honor or announce it here.
Don't get me wrong. I certainly appreciate the fact that collectors have not only allowed
this situation to develop, but have allowed it to go on so long while I searched for the rar-
ities. Sure collecting isn't about profits but there's nothing wrong with coming out ahead
while you're having a hoot finding coins that no one else likes. My only regrets are that I
didn't have a lot more finds or know some of the keys while they were still available.
I'd love to see some of these Billion or more mintages melted so that maybe only 200,000 exist. That would be great!
I wish someone out there would melt down over 4/5ths of the Churchill Crown population.
Nice picture - I couldn't find one. What surprises me is that the medal in the picture is definately not the medal that was mentioned in the press release. It's supposed to be a copy of the largest medal ever minted in Denmark and it was somewhat larger than the one in the box. Furthermore the design doesn't look like the original medal. In other words I'm puzzled
The medal took a tremendous effort to make. Today it is no problem to strike a 13cm silver planchet, but in the 1670s things were different. Many dies were broken before they finally managed to make one that could last for a while. It quickly developed some cracks, though - as can be seen in the below pictures of the medal.
The original medal is very rare but several modern copies exist in silver, bronze and tin.
One must admire the craftmanship on this piece. Just look at that detail.
I believe there is a good reason to make few sets. It is a quite ambitious project for a "first time" - I think the Royal Danish Mint want to test the market to see if there is any money in this. If the set turns out to be a succes they will probably continue to make them. The price might be the biggest problem. It is fair enough if the set contains the large medal - but no matter how you look at it 875 kroner (~$140) is a lot of money.
Marcel
<< <i>You and i Cladking must think differently, i personally hope (the more i think about it) that most of the modern coins are lost in remelts... then once they are RARE then that's when the few i have will be worth something.
I'd love to see some of these Billion or more mintages melted so that maybe only 200,000 exist. That would be great!
I wish someone out there would melt down over 4/5ths of the Churchill Crown population. >>
Well... ... the bad news is that it's yet to be established that we think differently.
The worse news is that you're too late for most of these just as I was twenty five
years ago. I've seen loads of world coins charged into furnaces. In most cases all
the coins in the load were coins which had light or extreme circulation. When you go
to look for these coins on the market they are frequently not there. When you look
for them in dealers' stock, they are not there. If (you can't always) you can find one
in poundage it will always look very much like those that were destroyed.
Not all the obsolete coinage from the last half century has been destroyed in furnaces:
Much of it has been destroyed in circulation. Coins like a 1950 NZ shilling is easily
found in poundage and years of hard looking might even turn up a nice AU specimen,
but have you seen any sort of unc? ...Not a gem now, just any sort of unc? Some such
coins will turn up on dealers' lists once in a while but it's not because they are widely
available, it's because very few people want them. And before you tell me that it's be-
cause they were made in large quantity so that dealers don't bvother with such cheap coins
you better go look at the Krause. Despite the fact they were made in larger quantity and
are little wanted they actually list for higher prices than the old silver coins. This is simply
because there is a small supply of the old silver coins and there is no real supply of the
later cu/ni issues.
Not all modern coins are rare. Many are extremely common. Many millions of some coins
could be bought very cheaply because of face value and favorable exchange rates. These
coins were brought over to this country to make poundage or to sell for whatever collectors
would pay. In some cases more were "used" in this country than in the issueing country.
Some of the Indonesian coins and notes are like this. While time has had a way of making
these more difficult to find, they will never be scarce or rare in the foreseeable future. Other
coins have a very curious mixture of the extremely common and the extremely "rare". The
Indian minor coins are of this sort. Many of some dates were imported but a date right in the
middle will be nearly impossible to find in any condition. In most cases like this Krause and
even the home country catalog will be of no help because they don't know which are which
either so they just list them all for a quarter which is way too high for the common ones and
laughable for the hard ones.
There are huge numbers of the modern rarities but as a general rule of thumb the same applies
to these as applies to the old rarities. If you see it, it's not rare. If it's available at all, then it's
not rare. The only difference with the old rarities is that the modern rarity might cost less than
a dollar if you can track it down and that applies whether it's a US modern or a world modern.
09/07/2006