Ireland King John

laurentyvan

I've wanted a nice hammered Irish coin for a while. I'm hoping you guys will consider this a fair enough representative sample.
It's King John, minted in Dublin, this type struck 1207-1211.

Do you agree with a grade of VG and a price of $45? And does anyone have a little more information on this coin?

MSD61

Here ya go laurentyvan I got this info from my favorite webpage. Codladh slán!

John's Irish coinage divides into his period as Lord of Ireland before he was King of England, during which period he minted halfpennies and farthings in Ireland and the period after he became King of England during which he also minted pennies.

This coin is a penny from his period as King of England. Dublin (DIVE or rarely DIVEL) is the most common mint but these coins are known from Limerick and Waterford. Of the Dublin moneyers Roberd is by far the most common, others are Willelm, WillelmP and Iohan (which may be a blunder from the obverse king's name and is rare).

John's coinage in Ireland as King of England amounted to about 10 million pennies (40,000 pounds) and was primarily to fund his military exploits in France. These coins circulated in England and all across Europe, they were the struck to the same standard as the contemporary English pennies and were accepted as such. John pennies by Roberd normally occur in fine F or very fine VF.


The legends are clear with no blundering and read:
(obverse) IOhA NNES RE X(reverse) +ROBE RD ON DIVE
Which translates as JOHN KING / ROBERD OF DUBLIN

laurentyvan

Is the one you're showing VF?

I would have liked to find a nicely toned piece but I don't mind cleaned 800 year old coins at all- only the semi-modern ones bother me if cleaned.

lordmarcovan

Sweet!

CIVITAS

I'm at home so I don't have any access to references to shed more light on that coin right now. However, I think a price of $45.00 for an Irish Hammered coin of that quality is more than fair.

In fact, probably a little cheap. Buy it. You'll like it.

MacCrimmon

$45 ???? Sounds like a steal to me. What is the meaning of the reverse symbols?

I wish there was Boru coinage!!

MSD61

<< <i>Is the one you're showing VF?

I would have liked to find a nicely toned piece but I don't mind cleaned 800 year old coins at all- only the semi-modern ones bother me if cleaned. >>



Hi laurentyvan, The coin in the image is GVF.

laurentyvan

Hi laurentyvan, The coin in the image is GVF.

Thanks msd61. I'm a little unclear what the differences would be between a VF and a GVF or a F and GF. Can you give me a little analysis?

In fact, probably a little cheap. Buy it. You'll like it. Civitas, I did buy it-thanks for reinforcing my decision.

It's always amazing to me how much easier it is to examine a coin after imaging it-very revealing. Are these the silver pennies they're constantly digging up everywhere in the UK?

AuldFartte

Great hammered, Laurent

I'd have dropped $45 for it in a heartbeat.

coachleonard

I know hammered irish coins turn up time to time, but not NEARLY as much as hammered medieval english coins. Medieval Irish coins
are much scarcer, especially pre-Edward I.

MSD61

<< <i>Hi laurentyvan, The coin in the image is GVF.

Thanks msd61. I'm a little unclear what the differences would be between a VF and a GVF or a F and GF. Can you give me a little analysis?

In fact, probably a little cheap. Buy it. You'll like it. Civitas, I did buy it-thanks for reinforcing my decision.

It's always amazing to me how much easier it is to examine a coin after imaging it-very revealing. Are these the silver pennies they're constantly digging up everywhere in the UK? >>



Here is a good webpage for Euro style grading and it's U.S. equivalent. This site can explain better then I
Linker

1jester

Great find, Laurent!!! I love it.

I too would like to know the significance of the symbols on the reverse.

MSD61

Hi folks! Here is some more info hope it's helpful

On the obverse of the coin is the king's head in a triangle and inscribed JOHANNES REX. And on the reverse the symbols are a crescent and bright planet with three lesser stars or starlings in the three points of another triangle the inscription here is the mint-master's name, ROBERD. ON. DIVE. for Divelin, i. e. Dublin.

The triangle on the Irish coins of this monarch, as well as those of his two next successors, have been thought to represent a harp and the arms of Ireland which became more fully impressed on the coins of some of the succeeding kings.

python

Nice coin and $45 seems like a very good deal. I plan on picking up one of these myself someday.

Askari

Sweet!! I've been meaning to pick up a well-struck one some day.

Steve27

"For example 'Good Very Fine' is a coin which is better than 'Very Fine' and is a grade in its own right in The European scale. Whereas 'Nice Very Fine' means the coin is in 'Very Fine' condition but is particularly nice for this grade (perhaps because of attractive toning or being particularly free of the normal minor scratches a coin in this grade would have). Sometimes 'Nice Very Fine' means that the grader would have liked to grade the coin 'Good Very Fine' but the level of wear indicated it is only 'Very Fine'."

That's all very good or fine or whatever.

P.S. Nice coin Laurent!