Step right this way for another version of the "Mislabeled SMS Jefferson" at TeleTrade!!
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
All the Jeff guys and perhaps curious onlookers might recall the coin member Solid had won on eBay, it was either a 1994-P or 1997-P that was holdered as MS69FS. Obviously it was an insert error and I believe that PCGS was contacted and the discrepency corrected. I wonder if anyone can link those threads so we can check the insert number with this coin which is running at TeleTrade for a bit past what the last one sold for at eBay!!!!!! Someone must think they have a "Cash-Cow" and a buyer will be in for a surprise if one steps forward trying to win the lottery.
Am I the only one who plainly sees the surfaces on this new entrant as SMS without a doubt!!!!????!!!! Really, if you look at the revamped-die business strike 1990's Jefferson Nickels, the strike isn't the telltale sign, it's the highly polished planchets that the mint has taken to using. Even the description is of an SMS issue with "Satin-Like" mint luster.
This is just wrong, all the way around.
Bad PCGS for making the mistake, and knowing it's out there, not doing something.
Bad dealers/collectors who have these insert errors for trying to make a killing on the unknowing.
Bad TeleTrade for listing them when they should know better.
Good PCGS forum for acting as a watchdog when we can.
Al H.
Am I the only one who plainly sees the surfaces on this new entrant as SMS without a doubt!!!!????!!!! Really, if you look at the revamped-die business strike 1990's Jefferson Nickels, the strike isn't the telltale sign, it's the highly polished planchets that the mint has taken to using. Even the description is of an SMS issue with "Satin-Like" mint luster.
This is just wrong, all the way around.
Bad PCGS for making the mistake, and knowing it's out there, not doing something.
Bad dealers/collectors who have these insert errors for trying to make a killing on the unknowing.
Bad TeleTrade for listing them when they should know better.
Good PCGS forum for acting as a watchdog when we can.
Al H.
0
Comments
I believe this coin recently sold in Teletrade or Ebay because I seem to remember the toning. It is probably worth $125 or so.
Frank
My Jefferson Full Step Variety Set (1938 - Current)
My Jefferson Proof Variety Set (1938 - Current)
<< <i>Full satin-like mint luster. >>
Edited to add: I have a hunch that bid is the seller of the coin and it'll be a "not sold".
Russ, NCNE
al h.
The coin I bid on was a '94 MS69FS, subsequently resubmitted to PCGS for
designation review and relabeled as an SMS example. The old serial number
was removed from the PCGS system, and the pop reports have been updated.
There is still one '94 MS69FS floating around out there, and the coin in this
auction is one of three '97 MS69FS coins - I assume all of these are mislabled
SMS coins.
The auction I bid on and won hammered at around $900 on ebay. The seller
had a perfect record and my intent was to pay for the coin, informing the seller
that I would be sending if off to PCGS and asking for a refund if it turned out
to be SMS. I figured the coin was worth either $90 or $9,000, and I felt
comfortable that I would be made whole. The seller decided to resubmit the
coin themselves and when it came back SMS, offered it to me for 1/100th of
my original bid ($9).
I'll bet the seller of this coin knows exactly what it is/isn't and wanted the
anonymity of running it through Teletrade...shame on them!!!
Ken
thanks for the clarification, i'm lazy and didn't want to search. i remembered you had come out OK and the coin was fixed by PCGS, just couldn't recall which date it was. i agree wholeheartedly about you speculation and also with that of Russ, that it's probably being bid on in some form by the seller.
al h.
Maybe the owner will read this thread, have second thoughts, and do the
right thing! Ya think?
I am actually assisting the owner with the sale of that coin. It came in on a large consignment package recently earmarked for Teletrade. When I was finalizing reserves late last night , I noticed the coin was not the typical SMS designated specimen. So, to ensure no collector would potentially overpay for it at auction, I reserved it for $20,000, while, at the same time emailing Teletrade to request the coin be pulled from their auction. Unfortunately, with the holiday upon us, it was not possible to pull the coin at the last minute. So, I fully expect the coin will not meet reserve and I will get it back later this week, at which point I can personally examine it and determine myself if the coin is the "real deal" or an SMS mechanical error. Wondercoin
***********************************
As planned, the coin did not sell and I will have a good look it in a couple days when I pick it up. It is also always good to have an honest consignor who will accept any decision I come up with (even if the coin has to be given back to PCGS to address a possible mechanical error). In fact, I would caution everyone to not even consider buying a 1994 or 1997 Jeff in high grade regular issue (above MS66FS) without making a condition of the deal PCGS reviewing the coin for confirmation of the proper classification. These coins are very, very scarce in true super high grade Mint State.
Good to know that you're on top of this one, and it will be made right.
Only 3 more out there to go!
Ken
I had recommended to Rick Montgomery first and then to DH that ALL MS68, MS68FS, MS69 and MS69FS regular issue 1994 and 1997 nickels be deleted from the pop report and then the burden would be on the party holding these coins to PROVE they had the "real deal" and not a mislabeled SMS coin. It would also result in unsuspecting buyers possibly being "tipped off" something was not right when they checked the pop report and saw -0- graded when offered a bogus coin. I believe Rick M. did exactly that at least one time and I recall DH also had coins removed. But, over the past year, a few more coins have surfaced.
This isn't to say it is impossible for a 1994 or 1997 Jeff (regular issue) to grade MS68 or MS69. It is possible - just HIGHLY unlikely. And, of course, the owners of these coins should not mind going through the exercise of double checking the veracity of the coins in question - if upon presentation to PCGS, PCGS were to conclude the coin(s) were genuine regular issue, the owner would have an instantly saleable coin for HUGE MONEY. Win-win.
But, rest assured, the nickel on TT tonight had no "foul play" involved. My consignor had no idea that he may or may not have had a regular issue nickel, Teletrade had no idea what they had (as witnessed by their meager description routinely used for $200 coins), my consignor has already given me the "go ahead" to take whatever action is necessary to address this coin with PCGS and Teletrade preapproved my $20,000 reserve with no buyback fees to me or other consequences to ensure no collector would "get stuck" with this coin tonight. All went well on this one.
Wondercoin