Russian coins...need help.

tbirde56

A fellow sent me a scan of 10 Russian coins he wants more info on and I can identify most of them but these coins seem to be pretty rare types in several cases. I'm looking for more info on them (in addition to my descriptions) as well as to opinions of their authenticity. I hope they're not stolen!
Thanks!
Warning: The two images are 800k to 1 meg in size so I only provided the links (below).

1 Poland, 10 Zlotych, 1824, C-101.2
2 Russia, 1 Rouble, 1776, C-67a.2
3 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1727, C-?
4 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1705, no mintmark, KM-123
5 Siberia, 2 kopecks, 1767, No KM mintmark
6 Russia, 1 polushka (1/4 kopeck), 1727, KM-?
7 Russia, 1 polushka, 1800KM, KM-92.3
8 Armavir (town), 1 Rouble, 1918, KM-1
9 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1811, pattern piece?
10 Siberia, 1 kopeck, 1766, C-3

Obverse
Reverse

lordmarcovan

Something about a few of them makes me a little leery, BUT I cannot tell for sure. One, I do not have enough experience with that sort of stuff to be a good judge of it- and two, some Russian coins of that era were often a bit crude anyway. Hope you get some good answers. I have nothing intelligent to say on these. It looks like a really neat lot to me, but I also think you are right to be cautious.

Askari

Unfortunately, I can't make out much detail from these pics, so I'll have to comment only on what I can discern.

#3 Looks to me to be KM-185.1. Although my Krause 18th century 2nd edition does not list one for 1727, that's unsurprising as it's well-known that there are many "unlisted in Krause" coins in the 17th & 18th century volumes. It could be rare, but I don't know. You'd have to check with a specialist to be sure.

#4 Are you sure this isn't KM-108?? The legends are the giveaway. 123 really is quite rare!

#6 Krause skips from 1722 (KM-152) to 1730 (KM-187), showing no Polushkas minted -- but I think Krause has simply overlooked at type. They do the same with Dengas, showing a gap between 1718 and 1730.

#9 I think you may be right about it being a pattern. It looks sort of like a variant of C-113 with a solid rim instead of a rilled one. It seems to me to be closest to Pn85. Be aware that Krause isn't all that diligent in providing complete listings of patterns.

tbirde56

Thanks, so far, guys!
I'm working with the 18th century 1ST edition that sorely needs to be upgraded especially considering the binding is releasing pages. I also agree about the inadequacy of the Krause listings and their gaps.

Brad

Askari

You're welcome! I can't say whether LM is right in his suspicions or not. I'm simply too unfamiliar with such early Russian coinage. Maybe you should PM Rublevik. He might know or know someone who does.

shylock

1 Poland, 10 Zlotych, 1824, C-101.2
2 Russia, 1 Rouble, 1776, C-67a.2
3 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1727, C-?
4 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1705, no mintmark, KM-123
5 Siberia, 2 kopecks, 1767, No KM mintmark
6 Russia, 1 polushka (1/4 kopeck), 1727, KM-?
7 Russia, 1 polushka, 1800KM, KM-92.3
8 Armavir (town), 1 Rouble, 1918, KM-1
9 Russia, 1 kopeck, 1811, pattern piece?
10 Siberia, 1 kopeck, 1766, C-3

tbirde56

I didn't post the pics inline, just the links, because they're so large and I didn't want to clog the bandwith..

cacheman

I agree with lordminivan - some of the coins look odd to me as well at first glance, though I would hesitate to condemn them outright, especially based on such poorly detailed pictures.

If real, at least some of these would normally be found only in advanced collections. It seems unusual that such coins, if genuine, would be in the hands of someone who knows little about them.

The 1727 polushka of Peter II is an extreme rarity, if not unique then nearly so. I cannot recall ever seeing this coin offered for sale and have never seen one in real life. I think it is probably a fake.

In most cases anymore, there are probably more counterfeits in the hands of the common collector than true rarities...

Askari

<< <i>If real, at least some of these would normally be found only in advanced collections. It seems unusual that such coins, if genuine, would be in the hands of someone who knows little about them. >>

Not so unusual ... the laws of inheritance make for some indiscriminate heirs.

cacheman

true, true...I guess we'll see if Tbird is given an opportunity to buy at bargain basement prices or if the guy really did just want to know what they are worth....if you catch my meaning

cacheman

Last night I dug a little deeper into my references for the 1727 polushka and was able to identify the coin as "excessively rare" but not unique (think 1913 Liberty nickel).

The coin is apparently known only as a "novodel" and is of much more refined style than the clumsy example shown in the photos above (which I am now convinced is a crude forgery).

Askari, if a previously unknown example of a Brasher doubloon or 1913 Liberty nickel were to show up in the hands of someone who knew nothing about them, would you not consider that "unusual" as well.

Askari

Actually, that's why they stay "hidden" for so long. I'm always cautious around exceptionally rare coins, especially when being offered by "know-nothings" but that means holding my greed in check ... and doing due diligence. What really raises warning bells here is that there is an entire group of rare coins and that they're all pretty pristine-looking (suggesting they were put away not long after they were made) despite ranging over a century. I'm not familiar with Russian coins of this period, so I'd certainly be doing a great deal more research if I were thinking of buying them.

cacheman

yes, with the research focused on the seller....

Askari

You bet!