Sharks live in Eastern Washington or Look Out little old ladies.

Fairlaneman

Just another reminder that all Coin Dealers are not what they appear to be.

A little 400 mile round trip was made today just because a dealer that was square one time deserved another shot at some pretty nice coins that are for sale. After getting almost lost in a strange town, Spokane, the coin shop was located. Housed in the back of a Jewerly Store that seemed a little ritzy I received some strange looks when walking in. Blue jeans and a somewhat ragged shirt must have flipped their switch. Hey bad clothes have to be worn when going through junk yards in pursuit of the other hobby's items.

Anyway after standing at the counter for a few monutes some woman from the jewerly section came over and asked if I needed help. This got the coin guys attention. Of course Mercury Dimes were asked for. Coin guys question. What period ? I said all. Coin guys next question. What years ? I said 1916 thru 1945 and I think that covered it finally. Anyway out came the tray with one I would have purchased.

Next I asked if he bought coins. Coin guys answer. Sure all of the time. Then the NGC box with 18 Mercs was flipped up on the counter so he could kick tires. At this point he observed a bunch of MS66 and MS67 dimes with a 65 a 64 and a 63 mixed in. Boy I'm glad he seperated the coins by grade. The first was a MS63FB 1927D Merc. Right off the bat he said that no sheet price was available. At this point,with my cool still in hand, I responded that I was sure he could figure a price for it. After going to the back room, the old car sales trick, he came back and said his computer was not working. Hmmm...a computer was three steps from him out front. Anyway he prints out the latest CDN sheet and then takes his list and writes down the number for the 27D. I glance over and see 2 something. At this point I ask him what the number is. Straight faced he says $245. Floored me for sure. That number is under plain MS63 money and no where close to what a legit dealer would pay for a 27D graded MS63FB. Right there I said thats enough and started packing the dimes away.

Coin guy says. Hold it give me a shot at some of the others. My response. Okay whatcha give me for a 1931P MS66FB. The answer was $849 which is low but not plum crazy. At this point we got into a friendly little jaw match which sealed his fate for sure. I did not matter anyway because my mind had been made up about this Shark that could swallow Little Old Ladies but got absolutely no where with this old crusty grump.

Well that was my final dealings with a dealer that I had thought was square.

Moral of the story... Watch out Little Old Ladies where ever you may be. Sharks can even be in the High Desert of Eastern Washington.

Take Care All

Ken

PS:: Not responsible for the spelling....

Iwog

Just repeating what I've said on this board numerous times.

Coin shop dealers exist for the big score, and they will pay 10 cents on the dollar if they can get away with it. All this value added nonsense is just a myth. A coin shop dealer is a troll that lives under the bridge between buyer and seller.

IvanOnly

I used to live in Spokane. I know what Coin Shop you are talking about.

I checked it out after getting fitted for a Tux in the same building. I had the same experience that you had.

There are two decent shops in Spokane however.
One is off of Argonne and Trent, Coin Corner
The Other is up on the South Hill, Eastern Washington Coin

Spokane is a pretty nice town however. I lived there for 6 years.

I hope you have a better experience next time!

tradedollarnut

Awww - Kevin's not that bad. If you really want to write about something, try some of the other shops in town!

Coinosaurus

This guy may be a shark, but I think the dynamic is off here. You need to think of yourself as a dealer. You bring in the box of PQ mercs. You go through the box and tell him what the sale price is. No arguing, just up or down on each coin. If he wants to refuse your awesomely toned coins at a reasonable price (say 10% back of retail) it doesn't make him a shark. It could be he doesn't have a quick outlet for them. It could mean he doesn't know the dealer market makers in Mercs very well. It could be all his clients like Morgans and not Mercs. Or it could be he just closed a big deal and doesn't have a lot of cash.

I don't collect Mercs myself, but I get the feeling they trade pretty frequently at close to sheet prices - meaning anyone who buys 10%-20% under retail and goes to a big show should be able to make a few points on the deal. For whatever reason, this dealer didn't want to work that hard today. It could be he's just lazy and not really a bad dude otherwise.

tradedollarnut

He's a Morgan buyer.

Trips to out of the way cities [yeah, that's Spokane] will rarely result in high prices offered for your coins - no matter what the series. The way they make their money is to buy from the locals and then take the stuff to the major shows and wholesale them to other dealers. So he has to pay in back of wholesale to make anything at all.

Fairlaneman

TDN he was not there. It was the younger brother. They did have a conversation on the phone though. I guess it was worth a shot to them and a 500 dollar bill if I would have sold the 27D.

No animosity on my part but they just will not get any coins from me in the future. Also they lost a sale for atleast two coins and probably three.

That was the only shop I went to. I have heard stories about a couple of the others.

Ken

Jackrabbit

Kevin isn't the dealer he use to be.... When I first started going to his shop and show's, he was always glad to
be of help and to take care of me in any manner.... Now he act's like he's to hot to work with me and a friend of
mine. He won't give us the time of day.... Our attitude was we'd just spend our money with a friendlier dear..
I feel it is his lost not ours....

tradedollarnut

Not the younger brother - just an apprentice learning the trade. He doesn't have the skill necessary to pay strong money for good coins. He's basically there to mind the shop and buy what he can [conservatively] to pay for himself.

For a 400 mile round trip, you should have made an appointment with the big dog himself!

Fairlaneman

<< <i>He's a Morgan buyer.

Trips to out of the way cities [yeah, that's Spokane] will rarely result in high prices offered for your coins - no matter what the series. The way they make their money is to buy from the locals and then take the stuff to the major shows and wholesale them to other dealers. So he has to pay in back of wholesale to make anything at all. >>



This was sort of why I went up there. I knew he was going to Long Beach and figured he could turn these quickly. He could have made a few quick bucks if decent prices were offer. Decent was all I wanted.

Mercs are trading No Where near sheet lately. Especially Blue Sheet, which is what he was trying to use on the coins over 65.

And yes I can see the factor of not being a local and constant customer. The previous did not matter three years ago at the PNNA show so why should it matter in Spokane. Looking for a Rip I think.

Ken

Fairlaneman

<< <i>Kevin isn't the dealer he use to be.... When I first started going to his shop and show's, he was always glad to
be of help and to take care of me in any manner.... Now he act's like he's to hot to work with me and a friend of
mine. He won't give us the time of day.... Our attitude was we'd just spend our money with a friendlier dear..
I feel it is his lost not ours.... >>



I noticed a change at the PNNA last year but thought it was because they were busy. Now I know it was not that.

Ken

dbldie55

If this is the Kevin I am thinking of, I went to school with him. Had no idea he was a coin dealer (we were weight lifters and not coin collectors in school). Saw him at the Portland ANA. Sort of shocked anyone I knew from before would be in this hobby.

Never been to his shop so I do not know what kind of dealer he is.

tradedollarnut

IMO, if you wanted a good deal you should have discussed your options with him over the phone first. To get more for your coins, take away the risk from the dealer. Instead of walking away mad with only a wasted day for your efforts, perhaps you could have consigned them to him at an agreed price to try to be sold at Long Beach. No risk and hopefully a quick sale. Just a thought....

Fairlaneman

No No No....not Mad at all.

Just a little discouraged because of what happened with a guy that I thought was a straight shooter. Maybe if he would have been there something different would have happened. As it was his help sealed the case this time and you are responsible for your help.

Ken

cupronik

I feel I must respond to this particular message. I think Kevin is
fair and professional in his dealings. I have bought coins from him
at several Northwest coin shows over the years. I'm a dealer who
primarily engages the wholesale trade (dealer-to-dealer). I haven't
tried to sell him coins since I buy coins with other dealers in mind.

Perhaps if the Mercs you offered had been graded by PCGS you
would've received more favorable bids. The truth is grade-for-grade
PCGS coins are, on average, more liquid than NGC. Why deny this?
Kevin has to take this in account. You may try crossing these
NGC-graded coins at PCGS (if you haven't already.)

I don't like dealer-bashing if it is on uncertain grounds. People on
this forum read about it and form opinions based on one-sided
testimony since the dealer in question probably isn't aware because
he's not even on the forum.

Cupronik

Fairlaneman

Tee Hee.....these were all PCGS Graded Merc Dimes. Heck one of them has a Pop of 15 with 4 better. The guy offered Blue Sheet price on a sight seen deal. Also he said the Pop was not relevant. Very uninformed and not willing to reseach a little. A computer was right in front of him and I was in no rush. Tried for a Rip and did not get it.

By the way it was not Kevin.

Do I know you by any chance ? Where are you from ?

Ken

Fairlaneman

By the way on the little Dealer Bashing quote. About three years ago I came back from the PNNA show and wrote a little post about a very friendly and honest dealer I had ran into. It was the same guy. Was that a Bash also ?

Actually if the shoe fits a post here is warranted whether it is a Good Bash or a Bad Bash. Something has changed in the last three years. Maybe you should tell him this.

Ken

coynclecter

<< <i>meaning anyone who buys 10%-20% under retail and goes to a big show should be able to make a few points on the deal. >>



Please tell me what shows you go to. I been going to Long Beach for 12 years and I've never gotten more than 10% over Greysheey and thats after talking to 30 dealers. I think they treat collectors different than other dealers. They want to buy at sheet and sell at trends/redbook.

I've made $$, but only when I BUY 10% back of greysheet. Premiums for a PQ coin only happen when they are selling. When they are buying there no such thing as PQ.

Iwog

In all the years I've been posting on the PCGS message board, I have never ONCE heard a coin dealer admit that he regularly offers 10-50% of bid for coins that walk into his shop. This is universal and STANDARD PRACTICE for almost all coin shop dealers because there is no other way a full time coin dealer can pay overhead and make a living. Instead of admitting it and having a dialog however, it's hidden away like a cult secret that will destroy the world if revealed to the wrong person.

Every time an informed collector walks into a shop expecting a reasonable price for his coins, he gets a rude awakening and the general contempt for dealers in general grows. This is ENTIRELY the fault of coin shop owners who not only refuse to have fixed buy and sell prices for any given coin, but will react violently to anyone who asks to see the Greysheet.

Just remember that NO ONE has a God given right to make money buying and selling collectables. If you can find your niche and exploit it, congratulations but don't claim that your status is any more deserving than a simple coin collector who was smart enough not to quit his day job.

roadrunner

I would have to agree with IWOG. They can pay up to 80% if they have a customer for the coin. But they count on getting top coins for 25-50% to prosper. Recently I've seen a 1796 half sell for 2/3 of bid as well as key date gold coins in high grades get bought at 1/3 of bid (by assuming they were 2 points lower than what they might really be). The dealer still has risks of counterfiets, no grades, stolen coins, etc. But I've seen the 1/3 rule up front many times from dealers who I know to be straight shooters and honest by most defintions. But being in the coin biz is not part of the definition.
But I can still buy some great deals from them when they underestimate something or have bought it for 1/3 of value.

I cannot sell coins as a rule to local brick and mortar stores. They just cannot pay unless I really discount. While they do support the backbone of the hobby they should all be forced to post a sign at the entrance: "Warning, coin dealer buying on these premises, enter at your own financial risk."

roadrunner

Sequitur

I have never ONCE heard a coin dealer admit that he regularly offers 10-50% of bid for coins that walk into his shop. This is universal and STANDARD PRACTICE for almost all coin shop dealers . . . . Instead of admitting it and having a dialog however, it's hidden away like a cult secret that will destroy the world if revealed to the wrong person.

Now this is on-the-mark.

sliderider

Yup. That's the way it goes. Dealers are all buy. It makes me wonder sometimes, how they manage to stay in business when all they do is buy (albeit at ridiculously low prices) and never seem to actually sell anything.

Iwog

They can sell anything on the wholesale market and make a profit as long as they buy low enough. There's a hidden computer market system that most coin collectors aren't aware of that costs a ton of money to join and is filled with dealers. When a coin dealer buys a coin collection, he usually has a very good idea of how much he can instantly liquidate the coins for.

What it means for coin collectors is that a given coin might have several bites taken out of the price before they are even allowed to see the coin. Recently Ebay has been challenging this excusive market, and is the source of much anguish among dealers. If entire coin collections can be put directly on ebay to the highest bidder, then there really is no reason for a coin dealer to exist.

Flash

<< <i>There's a hidden computer market system that most coin collectors aren't aware of that costs a ton of money to join and is filled with dealers. >>



Where can I find out more about this computer system? I would be very interested in knowing the details.

100proof1957

"Certified Coin Exchange" or "CCE",was the "ANE" or the "American Numismatic Exchange"
Back in the olden days !

You could call almost any dealer and get the bid or ask on the "Annie" back then,even get a firm offer on a sight un-seen coin.

Bought a 41 P Walker in MS67 on Teletrade in 89 or 90 for $2150.00,got the coin,didnt like it,sold it to a dealer in LA an hour later for $2250.00,sight un-seen.

Proof