Stuart, if it were me, I would sell the coin to purchase others. The value of the coin is at its peak right now. As soon as there is another...and another...and another, the cache and value of pop 1/0 will be diminished.
I can't help but ask the curious question. What prompted you to wait 31 years to get it graded? Particularly since you suspected it had a shot at a top pop?
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
Sarasota Frank: I've only in the past year become familiar with registry sets, top pops, etc. I had no real reason to have the coin certified, but am sorting through my collection to select high-potential coins for certification.
Since joining this forum, and becoming a PCGS Platinum member, I have gained a better understanding of the real value of some of the key coins in my collection. I knew that it had a shot at greatness, and rolled the grading dice...
I did not know until recently that this specific date/mintmark was truly rare in MS-64 and above grade. I knew that it was a shot 65 $20 Lib Type Coin, but I had not realized how rare and valuable it would be as an 1892-S as compared to a typical type coin date.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Why do people think this coins pop will increase? Seems like it won't after 20+ years. Congrats Stuart, I would say 45K plus at auction-------------------------BigE
Actually, after looking at the pop reports for the $20 Libs, I am not as sure it will.
However, to paraphrase what I think Dorkkarl might say, we are currently in a period where "plastic" and the registry rule. So long as this is the case, the coin will be very valuable. In another time, future or past, the coin would be less valuable. Additionally, the 92-S is not an overall rarity, just a conditional rarity in gem. And SF Type III $20's are not collected in a big way. The coin will have appeal to someone who is very competitive and has very deep pockets that is putting together a $20 Lib Registry set. Period. A type collector will find an MS-65 (or 66) of another date. A rare date gold collector would much rather have an AU 54-D $3, MS Charlotte $5, condition census CC $20, or some similar coin for that kind of money.
The next question I would be asking myself is how to sell it. While auction is the first reaction here, I might first contact a few dealers who might be working with a collector/investor on a $20 Lib set. Selling to or consigning with such a dealer might be worth considering.
(Just my ill-advised opinions--good luck with your new coin no matter what you decide)
BigE, RYK, Madmonk & Puff: Thanks very much for your kind words about my good fortune with the 1892-S PCGS MS-65 $20 Gold Liberty. It is truly my most exciting coin find, and will be very tough to beat in the future...
RYK: Thanks very much for your helpful and informative post with considerations on the best time to consider selling this coin, and the best method for the sale. Your analysis is very logical and makes a lot of sense.
I am in no rush, and may give this a bit of time to sink in so that I make a rational decision rather than an emotional one.
It may also be to my advantage for the $20 Lib Gold Registry Set holders, whom you referred to in your post, to get word of this new Top Pop coin to stimulate some competitive offers.
In any case, it's like winning the coin lottery, and I'm having a whole lot of fun enjoying it!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Stuart's coin was fresh to the market. You can bet that in the not too distant future another MS65 will be made from one of those 75 or so MS64's waiting in the wings. Grading on $20 Libs is not all that consistent. Stuart's 1906d in MS63 could easily be a 64 on the next trip through. Just like his 92-s would probably get graded MS64 at least once if he decided to resubmit it a few times for "educational" purposes. Long-time collectors tend to err on the conservative side. It's why your PQ coins are so readily bought up by eager dealers. PQ these days means the coin will come back the same grade every time....until it upgrades.
I did my own $20 LIb test earlier in the year with the following 3 common date coins. The intent was to send in a pair of no brainer 64's to possibly drag along the 3rd coin. A side benefit was to see if the lead coin could go 65. If it did, I'm sure the submission would have gone 65, 64, 64. But.........
PCGS MS64 green tag, very solid MS64++, bought at auction for a 50% premium. Monstrous look, and target framed copper toning. NGC MS64, very decent coin for a 64 NGC MS63, a nice high end PQ++ coin.
First time at NGC the group went 63, 63, 64. Yup! The best coin, a monster PCGS green tag, that I had paid a big premium for at auction downgraded. The worst of the 3 upgraded! On the 2nd submission, to try and get the 64's back in 64 holders, the old PCGS coin upgraded but the middle coin stayed a 63. The 3rd coin was sent back on it's own on a 3rd submission and it went to a 64.
I think this pretty much highlights the variability of $20 Libs. While I still felt the old PCGS coin had a great 65 shot I was a bit disillusioned by the 63 NGC grade. No matter, I sold the coin for a profit in the NGC64 holder to a dealer who specializes in gold crackouts. I have no doubts that someone, sometime, while upgrade that coin. If resubmitted after that, it could easily downgrade.
This is, indeed, a cool outcome! I tend to agree with RYK's analysis. If you are planning to sell the coin to purchase others more in tune with your current collecting interests, perhaps you might want to contact one of the bigger dealers to see if they can work out some sort of trade. But, all in all, this is a very, very good result.
Why do people think this coins pop will increase? Seems like it won't after 20+ years.
After watching pops climb over the past 18 years it's a pretty safe bet that many pop 1 coins with a big backlog just one grade lower are not in a safe position. Knowing the history of all the 1892-s $20 LIbs hitting the market over the past 30 years helps too. Lots of gold coins are sitting tucked away that have never seen a grading service. If Stuart's coin were a pop 1 with no 64's graded, it would be a good bet to estimate nothing nicer will likely show in the near future. The 1880-s $20 in MS66 that just sold for $92K has essentially no coins behind it except 2 coins in MS64 grade. It's position is probably very safe. The Eliasberg 1845-0 dime in MS69 is certainly safe from any competition....2nd best at PCGS is MS62! Yeah, I'd bet the farm on that coin....even if it was "just" a MS65.
The 1892-s on the other hand has 2 NGC MS65's graded or at least listed. That's potentially 3 MS65's available to a pop top $20 LIb collector to choose from. What if one of those (or both) cross? I would submit that another PCGS MS65 1892-s is almost assured, just a matter of when.
Why do people think this coins pop will increase? Seems like it won't after 20+ years.
All those MS64s will now be resubmitted and sure enough 1-2 will sneak in over the coming months/yeras. Also how many other raw ones are lurking out there?
You must have not read my entire reply. It could take several tries per coin, or even a dozen to make that 65. I'm sure some of those 64's have been tried multiple times. They will continue to be tried. It's no different with Morgans, Buffs, Walkers, etc.
And if there is an increase in the number of set builders for gem $20 LIbs, you can be sure PCGS will have to make some of those 64's into 65's to keep the submissions growing.
I read your post roadrunner, just kind of playing devils advocate by saying that even though the pops show 38 64's in actuality there may be only 10 or so. San Francisco must have benn really hoppin' back then for all 900K to heavily circulate! (or maybe they got melted?)------------------------BigE
Stuart, your last statement "assumes" that you got the right grade the first time. How do you know? Not just because it was the first submission? The grading services are 30-90% accurate on each submission. Your coin could be the right grade (65) or the wrong grade (maybe really a PQ64). One submission doesn't ensure an accurate grade, regardless on one's intentions of not "trying to improve" the grade. I'd be incensed if I got a 64 and I "knew" the coin was a 65. Damn right I'm gonna resubmit. My worst submission ever was when NGC whacked me with 1989 standards (in 2002) and graded 2/3 of the dozen or so coins I submitted one point under market. Should I have stayed put, and just accepted the 50% loss I was about to get? Or should I have "played" the game of resubmission to get what was due me? On the next submission, in the same order, with all the coins, they graded on average one point higher, in some cases 2 points. So what were the right grades?? Good question. Maybe neither sets of grades were right. NGC and PCGS do not price coins, they just slap #'s on them.
In reality, there is no right grade, only the right price. I would hope that if your 1892-s came back a 64 that you didn't at some point down the road sell it for 64ish money. That would be unfair to you. Short of putting the coin up for auction, you'd have no way of knowing if that coin was potentially worth 4-6X more. This is one of the great fallacies of the grading biz....and a potential windfall to pro-graders.
Good luck on whatever you decide with your coin. You might want to take Legend up on their offer of a "ton." But a ton of what? Feathers? Clean fill? Copper?
Stuart, it would be interesting if you sent your coin in again to try for a 66. If it came back 65 again the pop would be 2 and you would lose a ton of $$-------------BigE
Big E, while your point is right on, don't forget to add in the 32+ pieces on the NGC grading report...and the 2 65's...they count too. Double eagles were saved in huge quantities, esp. the Saints, banking on things NOT showing up, is a very dangerous proposition. I'd bet that less than 30% of what exists has been submitted. And that number could be as low as 5-10%. Even if the pops on the 64's for this date were only 10-15 pieces, I'd still bet that one of them is PQ and is only waiting for the coronation day....or the next round of gradeflation.
Remember that in 1989 Stuart's 1892-s would have probably had no shot at being a 65. It was probably just a solid or decent 64. Here's a case where gradeflation, and picking a PQ coin, resulted in a nice windfall for Stuart. That's the real story here. And something that both Monsterman and TDN have been very vocal on. Buy PQ if the price makes sense to you.
<< <i>Stuart - If you thought it most likely to grade 64, you should probably be a seller. I don't see how it can be worth it TO YOU to keep the coin if you don't think it's a solid 65. >>
I agree. Stuart, if I were in your shoes, I'd sell it. Take advantage of this market and the fools with Registry fever. The longer you hold it, the more likely one or more MS64 crackouts will be upgraded.
<< <i>I agree. Stuart, if I were in your shoes, I'd sell it. Take advantage of this market and the fools with Registry fever. The longer you hold it, the more likely one or more MS64 crackouts will be upgraded. >>
I also agree with Barry. If you're not particularly attached to this coin and you'd rather acquire a LOT of other nice coins you needed, I'd strike while the iron is hot. I wouldn't panic to unload it, but I'd start lining up offers while this one is a pop one/none higher.
Roadrunner: Thanks for your post explaining your experience with variable grading results. I certainly understand your point of view, and appreciate your position.
I will make some decisions about what coins I may wish to either trade or purchase with potential proceeds from this very fortunate windfall "coin lottery" that I won.
These are likely to include such classics as Flowing Hair Dollar (AU), Draped Bust Dollar (AU-PL) and $10 Turban Heraldic Eagle (AU-PL) which have been on my "dream list" for quite a long time.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Hope you get to hang on the coin you've owned for 30+ years for a little longer in it's new plastic home. If I made a coin like that, I'd take a really nice picture of it, and create every pcgs registry set that included that coin and put the pic in.
<< <i>It is tempting for me to monetize this for a really choice PCGS AU-58 (Prooflike) Draped Bust Dollar, a 1799 $10 Turban Eagle (Prooflike), and perhaps also a high grade AU Flowing Hair Dollar >>
I'm working on a type set, and this is definitely what I'd be thinking to do, try and find a way to turn it into a few other higher end examples of really nice (and spendy)type coins. Maybe you should come up with a little longer want list and see if you can find a dealer to work out a trade for 2 - 5 wantlist coins (+ $$$?) for your pop 1/0 1892-S PCGS MS-65 $20 Gold Liberty. I'm only about 3 years into collecting, so have no idea how many dealers could/would work a trade out, but I have the feeling at least Legend Numismatics inventory has already been checked for the 3 coins you mentioned.
RYK wrote:
<< <i>However, to paraphrase what I think Dorkkarl might say, we are currently in a period where "plastic" and the registry rule. So long as this is the case, the coin will be very valuable. >>
As a pop 1/0 coin, it is, in a way unique, in that's it owner can now potentially assemble any set that includes an 1892-S $20 Liberty as a PCGS Registry #1 all-time no possible finer. A distinction that rules as long as the PCGS registry does. Even if another ms65 is made, it's still pop 2/0, and still offers the owner that same possibility. I've only been collecting a few years, have only recently found this forum where I've learned a lot, one of the things I've learned is nice coins to tend to increase in value at a higher rate than ok coins. Even if another ms65 is made your coin is still nice, right? Plastic and the registry do rule and make some coin prices hard to understand in any other context. However, nice coins have ruled for a longer time, as you know since you paid a huge premium for it back in '73. I have to guess you could weather the 10-20% temporary price hit of another 65, unless of course all kinds of other 65's are made - nobody has yet suggested they will flood in.
Enjoy your new piece of plastic holding your long time raw coin. Good luck when it comes time to sell or trade, hope you get a deal that makes you happy.
Interestingly, there is not much registry interest in the $20 Libs. From a demand standpoint, you might be better off with a pop 1/0 commem or a pop 1/0 Indian cent (or another active and competitive registry). Another reason to sell during the "hot" market.
P.S. I am not sure that you will be getting all three of the coins on the dream list. From what I hear, low-end AU-58 1799 $10's are pushing $18,000+. Knowing you, I expect that you will want a nice one.
I wouldn't go for any pop 1 coins as at some point, registry mania is gonna take an eventual pop. Bread and butter coins like 1799 $10 gold pieces or 1799 cents will always retain their value based on inflation. I used the same logic with my 67-s quarter. That coin was too specialized...even for me at the price it was now worth. I'd rather be into some less esoteric coins with more readily defined values and demand. But then again who's to say what the future will hold. If 2 major players decide to start building $20 Lib gem sets, the 92-s could be ransomed off for $50K. But is that going to happen? Is it happening now behind the scenes? That would be important to find out.
The right way to handle a coin that isn't integral to your collection but you're not sure you want to sell or not is to put a number on it and let it be known it's available at that number. Like this guy is doing If it sells, you're happy and if it doesn't sell you're happy.
Of course, if it doesn't sell and you decide you would rather sell it than keep it then you need to adjust your number!
TradeDollarNut: Thanks for your advice and your suggestion. I appreciate your guidance. It will take a bit of time for the significance of this very fortunate event to sink in. What a great way to start a Holiday weekend!! -- thanks to PCGS e-mailing me my first 4 coin grades on Friday afternoon.
I will consider this over the Holiday Weekend to give myself a chance to gather my thoughts and to evaluate my "dream coins" wish list as mentioned earlier in this thread.
The grades that I received on Friday are actually only the first 4 of 24 coins that I currently have submitted to PCGS. So there are another 20 coins yet to be graded -- 4 more $20 gold pieces with results expected any day, and another 16 PL/DMPL Carson City (and other) Morgan Dollars via "Economy Grade" which will take several additional weeks longer.
The other Gold coins are $20 generic dates (3 Libs & 1 Saint) which I anticipate will grade MS-63 or MS-64, but no potential big hitters like the 1892-S. I may have a shot at MS-65 on 1 of the 3 Libs and the Saint.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Roadrunner: I totally agree with your post about monetizing my 1892-S in the short term while the Registry Set iron is hot, and allocating the assets into a few classic Type Coins which have always been on my "Dream Coin" list -- which I mentioned earlier in this thread. mentione.
This is a lot of fun, and is like winning the "Coin Lottery"!!
Thanks to my fellow forum members for sharing in this memorable experience with me and for making it even more special!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Today after returning from a trip to London, I received the 1892-S $20 Liberty in PCGS MS-65 Pop (1/0) which I posted as the subject of this thread last Friday.
As promised, I took a few digital photos of the coin to share with my fellow forum members, and will try to post them later tonight.
I was also pleased to find out that I was 4-for-4 with another PCGS submission, in which I made (3) 1904 $20 Liberties in MS-64, as well as a 1927 Saint in MS-64 (all raw coins from my collection! )
So, in the last 2 submissions I feel very fortunate to have made the following 7 Gold coins:
1892-S $20 Liberty MS-65 (Pop 1/0)(3 Qty) 1904 $20 Liberty MS-641927 $20 Saint MS-641901-S $10 Liberty MS-641932 $10 Indian MS-63
Thanks PCGS!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
Cool! It looks very solid for the grade. The market will discount for the possibility of a 2nd and 3rd 65. But you are the first! You hope that PCGS redesigns their insert before another one is made 65.
Keep it! There is indeed three collectors doing high grade type III Libs with one very active one touting that he wants to buy on the floor. Sure, put a big number on it so that if they want to pay you big time then you can shed your tears on all those new bills.
The only way I would ever sell that coin is if you can use it to upgrade it with a few of your other Libs to a higher grade type III Liberty but then why bother? No coin you get will ever have the story behind it like this one has for you!
The $20 Lib sure doesn't look like a "just made it" coin. Keep one eye on the $20 Lib registry market and decide at some point if it's time to let this baby go. As TDN said, don't rule out the potential of a 66, especially if the coin is high end and standards slip another few tenths. The standards for $20 Libs in MS65, and esp. better dates, may not have inflated over the past 12 years as much as other series. For now, enjoy it.....and keep one eye open.
Comments
I could take it to Long Beach for ya.
Robert
I can't help but ask the curious question. What prompted you to wait 31 years to get it graded? Particularly since you suspected it had a shot at a top pop?
Since joining this forum, and becoming a PCGS Platinum member, I have gained a better understanding of the real value of some of the key coins in my collection. I knew that it had a shot at greatness, and rolled the grading dice...
I did not know until recently that this specific date/mintmark was truly rare in MS-64 and above grade. I knew that it was a shot 65 $20 Lib Type Coin, but I had not realized how rare and valuable it would be as an 1892-S as compared to a typical type coin date.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
great job
Yes, Frank. You are correct, and I am extremely thankful for my wonderful good fortune!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Actually, after looking at the pop reports for the $20 Libs, I am not as sure it will.
However, to paraphrase what I think Dorkkarl might say, we are currently in a period where "plastic" and the registry rule. So long as this is the case, the coin will be very valuable. In another time, future or past, the coin would be less valuable. Additionally, the 92-S is not an overall rarity, just a conditional rarity in gem. And SF Type III $20's are not collected in a big way. The coin will have appeal to someone who is very competitive and has very deep pockets that is putting together a $20 Lib Registry set. Period. A type collector will find an MS-65 (or 66) of another date. A rare date gold collector would much rather have an AU 54-D $3, MS Charlotte $5, condition census CC $20, or some similar coin for that kind of money.
The next question I would be asking myself is how to sell it. While auction is the first reaction here, I might first contact a few dealers who might be working with a collector/investor on a $20 Lib set. Selling to or consigning with such a dealer might be worth considering.
(Just my ill-advised opinions--good luck with your new coin no matter what you decide)
RYK: Thanks very much for your helpful and informative post with considerations on the best time to consider selling this coin, and the best method for the sale. Your analysis is very logical and makes a lot of sense.
I am in no rush, and may give this a bit of time to sink in so that I make a rational decision rather than an emotional one.
It may also be to my advantage for the $20 Lib Gold Registry Set holders, whom you referred to in your post, to get word of this new Top Pop coin to stimulate some competitive offers.
In any case, it's like winning the coin lottery, and I'm having a whole lot of fun enjoying it!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I did my own $20 LIb test earlier in the year with the following 3 common date coins. The intent was to send in a pair of no brainer 64's to possibly drag along the 3rd coin. A side benefit was to see if the lead coin could go 65. If it did, I'm sure the submission would have gone 65, 64, 64. But.........
PCGS MS64 green tag, very solid MS64++, bought at auction for a 50% premium. Monstrous look, and target framed copper toning.
NGC MS64, very decent coin for a 64
NGC MS63, a nice high end PQ++ coin.
First time at NGC the group went 63, 63, 64. Yup! The best coin, a monster PCGS green tag, that I had paid a big premium for at auction downgraded. The worst of the 3 upgraded! On the 2nd submission, to try and get the 64's back in 64 holders, the old PCGS coin upgraded but the middle coin stayed a 63. The 3rd coin was sent back on it's own on a 3rd submission and it went to a 64.
I think this pretty much highlights the variability of $20 Libs. While I still felt the old PCGS coin had a great 65 shot I was a bit disillusioned by the 63 NGC grade. No matter, I sold the coin for a profit in the NGC64 holder to a dealer who specializes in gold crackouts. I have no doubts that someone, sometime, while upgrade that coin. If resubmitted after that, it could easily downgrade.
roadrunner
This is, indeed, a cool outcome! I tend to agree with RYK's analysis. If you are planning to sell the coin to purchase others more in tune with your current collecting interests, perhaps you might want to contact one of the bigger dealers to see if they can work out some sort of trade. But, all in all, this is a very, very good result.
Mark
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
After watching pops climb over the past 18 years it's a pretty safe bet that many pop 1 coins with a big backlog just one grade lower are not in a safe position. Knowing the history of all the 1892-s $20 LIbs hitting the market over the past 30 years helps too. Lots of gold coins are sitting tucked away that have never seen a grading service. If Stuart's coin were a pop 1 with no 64's graded, it would be a good bet to estimate nothing nicer will likely show in the near future. The 1880-s $20 in MS66 that just sold for $92K has essentially no coins behind it except 2 coins in MS64 grade. It's position is probably very safe. The Eliasberg 1845-0 dime in MS69 is certainly safe from any competition....2nd best at PCGS is MS62!
Yeah, I'd bet the farm on that coin....even if it was "just" a MS65.
The 1892-s on the other hand has 2 NGC MS65's graded or at least listed. That's potentially 3 MS65's available to a pop top $20 LIb collector to choose from. What if one of those (or both) cross?
I would submit that another PCGS MS65 1892-s is almost assured, just a matter of when.
roadrunner
All those MS64s will now be resubmitted and sure enough 1-2 will sneak in over the coming months/yeras. Also how many other raw ones are lurking out there?
Great story.
It's no different with Morgans, Buffs, Walkers, etc.
And if there is an increase in the number of set builders for gem $20 LIbs, you can be sure PCGS will have to make some of those 64's into 65's to keep the submissions growing.
roadrunner
My personal preference is not to resubmit coins with the hope of improving the grade...
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
<< <i>Just for the record, since some have asked via PM, this was my first attempt at submitting my raw 1892-S $20 Liberty. >>
I'm guessing it was shipped underinsured in hindsight.
In reality, there is no right grade, only the right price. I would hope that if your 1892-s came back a 64 that you didn't at some point down the road sell it for 64ish money. That would be unfair to you.
Short of putting the coin up for auction, you'd have no way of knowing if that coin was potentially worth 4-6X more. This is one of the great fallacies of the grading biz....and a potential windfall to pro-graders.
Good luck on whatever you decide with your coin. You might want to take Legend up on their offer of a "ton." But a ton of what? Feathers? Clean fill? Copper?
roadrunner
Double eagles were saved in huge quantities, esp. the Saints, banking on things NOT showing up, is a very dangerous proposition.
I'd bet that less than 30% of what exists has been submitted. And that number could be as low as 5-10%. Even if the pops on the 64's for this date were only 10-15 pieces, I'd still bet that one of them is PQ and is only waiting for the coronation day....or the next round of gradeflation.
Remember that in 1989 Stuart's 1892-s would have probably had no shot at being a 65. It was probably just a solid or decent 64. Here's a case where gradeflation, and picking a PQ coin, resulted in a nice windfall for Stuart. That's the real story here. And something that both Monsterman and TDN have been very vocal on. Buy PQ if the price makes sense to you.
roadrunner
<< <i>Stuart - If you thought it most likely to grade 64, you should probably be a seller. I don't see how it can be worth it TO YOU to keep the coin if you don't think it's a solid 65. >>
I agree. Stuart, if I were in your shoes, I'd sell it. Take advantage of this market and the fools with Registry fever. The longer you hold it, the more likely one or more MS64 crackouts will be upgraded.
<< <i>I agree. Stuart, if I were in your shoes, I'd sell it. Take advantage of this market and the fools with Registry fever. The longer you hold it, the more likely one or more MS64 crackouts will be upgraded. >>
I also agree with Barry. If you're not particularly attached to this coin and you'd rather acquire a LOT of other nice coins you needed, I'd strike while the iron is hot. I wouldn't panic to unload it, but I'd start lining up offers while this one is a pop one/none higher.
I agree completely. Enjoy the pop 1/0 status for a while.
Good luck and have fun!!
Robert
<< I am in no rush, and may give this a bit of time to sink in so that I make a rational decision rather than an emotional one. >>
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I will make some decisions about what coins I may wish to either trade or purchase with potential proceeds from this very fortunate windfall "coin lottery" that I won.
These are likely to include such classics as Flowing Hair Dollar (AU), Draped Bust Dollar (AU-PL) and $10 Turban Heraldic Eagle (AU-PL) which have been on my "dream list" for quite a long time.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Hope you get to hang on the coin you've owned for 30+ years for a little longer in it's new plastic home. If I made a coin like that, I'd take a really nice picture of it, and create every pcgs registry set that included that coin and put the pic in.
<< <i>It is tempting for me to monetize this for a really choice PCGS AU-58 (Prooflike) Draped Bust Dollar, a 1799 $10 Turban Eagle (Prooflike), and perhaps also a high grade AU Flowing Hair Dollar >>
I'm working on a type set, and this is definitely what I'd be thinking to do, try and find a way to turn it into a few other higher end examples of really nice (and spendy)type coins. Maybe you should come up with a little longer want list and see if you can find a dealer to work out a trade for 2 - 5 wantlist coins (+ $$$?) for your pop 1/0 1892-S PCGS MS-65 $20 Gold Liberty. I'm only about 3 years into collecting, so have no idea how many dealers could/would work a trade out, but I have the feeling at least Legend Numismatics inventory has already been checked for the 3 coins you mentioned.
RYK wrote:
<< <i>However, to paraphrase what I think Dorkkarl might say, we are currently in a period where "plastic" and the registry rule. So long as this is the case, the coin will be very valuable. >>
As a pop 1/0 coin, it is, in a way unique, in that's it owner can now potentially assemble any set that includes an 1892-S $20 Liberty as a PCGS Registry #1 all-time no possible finer. A distinction that rules as long as the PCGS registry does. Even if another ms65 is made, it's still pop 2/0, and still offers the owner that same possibility. I've only been collecting a few years, have only recently found this forum where I've learned a lot, one of the things I've learned is nice coins to tend to increase in value at a higher rate than ok coins. Even if another ms65 is made your coin is still nice, right? Plastic and the registry do rule and make some coin prices hard to understand in any other context. However, nice coins have ruled for a longer time, as you know since you paid a huge premium for it back in '73. I have to guess you could weather the 10-20% temporary price hit of another 65, unless of course all kinds of other 65's are made - nobody has yet suggested they will flood in.
Enjoy your new piece of plastic holding your long time raw coin. Good luck when it comes time to sell or trade, hope you get a deal that makes you happy.
paul
Need more $$$ for coins?
P.S. I am not sure that you will be getting all three of the coins on the dream list. From what I hear, low-end AU-58 1799 $10's are pushing $18,000+. Knowing you, I expect that you will want a nice one.
roadrunner
Of course, if it doesn't sell and you decide you would rather sell it than keep it then you need to adjust your number!
I will consider this over the Holiday Weekend to give myself a chance to gather my thoughts and to evaluate my "dream coins" wish list as mentioned earlier in this thread.
The grades that I received on Friday are actually only the first 4 of 24 coins that I currently have submitted to PCGS. So there are another 20 coins yet to be graded -- 4 more $20 gold pieces with results expected any day, and another 16 PL/DMPL Carson City (and other) Morgan Dollars via "Economy Grade" which will take several additional weeks longer.
The other Gold coins are $20 generic dates (3 Libs & 1 Saint) which I anticipate will grade MS-63 or MS-64, but no potential big hitters like the 1892-S. I may have a shot at MS-65 on 1 of the 3 Libs and the Saint.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
So, will this be your new icon since it is the pride of the collection. I can't believe you don't have a picture of it.
I'm happy for you have fun basking in the glow.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
This is a lot of fun, and is like winning the "Coin Lottery"!!
Thanks to my fellow forum members for sharing in this memorable experience with me and for making it even more special!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
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It's been a fun ride so far!!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
As promised, I took a few digital photos of the coin to share with my fellow forum members, and will try to post them later tonight.
I was also pleased to find out that I was 4-for-4 with another PCGS submission, in which I made (3) 1904 $20 Liberties in MS-64, as well as a 1927 Saint in MS-64 (all raw coins from my collection!
So, in the last 2 submissions I feel very fortunate to have made the following 7 Gold coins:
1892-S $20 Liberty MS-65 (Pop 1/0)(3 Qty) 1904 $20 Liberty MS-641927 $20 Saint MS-641901-S $10 Liberty MS-641932 $10 Indian MS-63
Thanks PCGS!!Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I think that you'll agree that it's a very pretty $20 Liberty, which is why I had originally purchased it back in 1973 as my $20 Liberty Type Coin
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
That coin appears not only solid for the grade, but very high end!
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Keep it! There is indeed three collectors doing high grade type III Libs with one very active one touting that he wants to buy on the floor. Sure, put a big number on it so that if they want to pay you big time then you can shed your tears on all those new bills.
The only way I would ever sell that coin is if you can use it to upgrade it with a few of your other Libs to a higher grade type III Liberty but then why bother? No coin you get will ever have the story behind it like this one has for you!
Then again, no one might believe you?
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
roadrunner