WHAT'S THE MOST TIMES YOU HAVE SUBMITTED A COIN FOR AN UPGRADE AND FINALLY GOTTEN IT???

saintguru

I have a 1913-S MS64 Saint that I paid a 50% premium for in Long Beach Sept. 03 Heritage auction. Paid up because the date is unquestionably the rattiest mintage of the set. It was a real good shot. Sent it in 6 times. Then I sent my entire set in 2 months ago for regrade and GOT A MS 65!!!! Finally....so that's seven submissions.

Theop

How did you submit each time?

Cracked out or in the PCGS holder?

Although it should be clear by now, I still don't understand for sure how they treat a coin sent for regrade in the PCGS holder.
I have read here both that PCGS cracks the coin (and will reslab with the same label if it doesn't upgrade) and that PCGS will not crack the coin (and will just grade through the existing slab).

saintguru

I sent it in 4 times in holder...2 crackouts (only because there was NO way it would go to a 63). On regrades they crack it out before it goes in the grading room. Then they grade it by consensus on computer...and finally see what it came in as. You get an upgrade or the pre-existing grade. New label either way.

tjkillian

The most I've done was twice. It is quite expensive for my coins to send them in too many times.

Tom

jbsteven

I sent a 1882 s Morgan in 7 times and finally NGC gave it a ms68. I sent it in raw every time. When I bought it in a PCGS ms67 holder I knew it would go up sooner or later. I will try a coin 2 times unless I have the gut feeling it will upgrade, then I will keep trying it until it makes it.

robertpr

Just supports some people's notions that they pat the big boys on the back. You send in the same coin 6 times to get a 64 each time. Then they see an entire run come thru in one shot, probably put 2 and 2 together to figure it's all the same submission, and they give it the bump, the benefit of the doubt, the pat on the back, whatever you want to call it.

Tonekiller

<< <i>Just supports some people's notions that they pat the big boys on the back. You send in the same coin 6 times to get a 64 each time. Then they see an entire run come thru in one shot, probably put 2 and 2 together to figure it's all the same submission, and they give it the bump, the benefit of the doubt, the pat on the back, whatever you want to call it. >>




NOT!

robertpr

The real question is how many times have you had to send in a bodybagger before it gets holdered?

BigAl

4 times:
1. ms63pl
2. ms64
3. ms63pl
4. ms64pl (finally!)

btw, all were crackouts.

saintguru

I sent a 1882 s Morgan in 7 times and finally NGC gave it a ms68. I sent it in raw every time. When I bought it in a PCGS ms67 holder I knew it would go up sooner or later.

I know this question may be controversial, but do you think it's worth more as an NGC68 or a PCGS67??? I wonder??

Just supports some people's notions that they pat the big boys on the back.

This I beg to differ on. I got the upgrade on the set submission, in my opinion, because they were looking at all very high end 65/66's with a small handful of 64's. The set as a whole can have the effect of lifting a few close calls. It has nothing to do with who you are...although I definately see the advantage of set submission. I've talked with David Hall enough times to know that the playing field is damn fair. Remember that if they overgrade a coin, THEY have to eat it if it gets submitted as a questionable grade and fails. I know of this happening and you can imagine that PCGS does not like to eat overgrades!

saintguru

What the hell...here it is...remember that the 1913-S SAint is the most chewed up mintage in the set...64's look like crappy 63's. This is a great 13-S although it's not like a 1927 ms65.



1913-S MS65..very rare.. POP 12/1 higher!

saintguru

By the way, I just received regrades on FOUR really great, strong Saints...one ms64, two 65's, one 66...NO DICE, FLOYD...NO UPGRADES!! But as Arnold said, "I'll be back!".

dorkkarl

never done it. 85% grading consistency sounds about right.

gee, don't you now wish that the grading guarantee would also cover UNDERgrading???

K S

jbsteven

<< <i>but do you think it's worth more as an NGC68 or a PCGS67??? >>



ngc 68 without question. In a pcgs 67 I paid $1400 for it ($550 over sheet). I sold it for $3250 in the NGC holder.

ddink

<<Although it should be clear by now, I still don't understand for sure how they treat a coin sent for regrade in the PCGS holder.
I have read here both that PCGS cracks the coin (and will reslab with the same label if it doesn't upgrade) and that PCGS will not crack the coin (and will just grade through the existing slab). >>

HRH has been very clear on this. They crack out the coin before it's ever seen by graders. If you don't feel you can take him at his word, why are you sending coins to his company?

saintguru

On regrades they crack it out before it goes in the grading room. Then they grade it by consensus on computer...and finally see what it came in as. You get an upgrade or the pre-existing grade. New label either way.

I though THIS was pretty clear as well. I think it's a very fair process. Certainly it removes any doubt of bias.

earlwbollinger

Never done it myself.
I never had a coin that was worth all that effort or money, that I was tempted to try it on.

jacktheknife

Certainly it removes any doubt of bias

SG,

Yes, that is true for PCGS coins. Other TPG holders are not cracked, however. I think this is still a BIG source of bias. I think the playing field is "very unlevel" for any coins in holders other than PCGS.

Jack

wondercoin

The most I heard of was 63 tries. According to my (very) reliable source - the coin worked on the 63rd try. The information was fully revealed to me in connection with me buying a particular (very valuable) coin and I appreciated the information. Since the upgrade added around $45,000 to the value of the coin, the $6,300 in grading fees (63 x $100) was really "a drop in the bucket".

Wondercoin

dragon

Never more than once, and rarely even once, although I know that quite a few coins I've sold have subsequently gotten bumped by their new owners.

saintguru

I do agree with you thatthere is a bias for non-PCGS holders....and that's just the way it is. That's David's way and it really wasn't what I was originally addressing. I was referring to the system of regrading a PCGS coin.

ms70

I have a 50% success rate so far. I sent in two coins & one upgraded. The next time I sent in the one that didn't upgrade from the first
time and a new coin. The new coin upgraded. So technically it may be a 66% success rate since two of three coins upgraded. The thing
that's hard to understand is the one coin that went twice & didn't upgrade is without a doubt one grade higher. It should've went up a
grade before the other two did.

dragon

<<< The most I heard of was 63 trys. According to my (very) reliable source - the coin worked on the 63rd try. ???

Wow! And after all that, it's STILL the same coin.

eyoung429

Ahhh yes, but worth $30k+ just for the point jump......very justified!!!

wondercoin

"Wow! And after all that, it's STILL the same coin."

Dragon: That may be true, BUT, the submitter always believed the coin WAS the next highest grade and that the coin was worth that price level. So, it really is a "chicken and egg" kind of issue if you think about it.

Wondercoin

saintguru

<<< The most I heard of was 63 trys. According to my (very) reliable source - the coin worked on the 63rd try. ???

Yeah..and I'll bet they never sent in the 63 labels, so now the coin is worth 1/4 what it would have been worth in he old grade!!!

wondercoin

Saintguru: FYI: I was told well over (40) of those tries were crossover attempts. Also, when a coin is submitted in the original holder for upgrade, there is no tag that is affected either as PCGS automatically removes the old slab number from the system.

Wondercoin

OKbustchaser

<< <i>Ahhh yes, but worth $30k+ just for the point jump......very justified!!! >>




No, it isn't. The coin is worth exactly the same amount. The label on the slab is worth another 30K+, though

Jim

saintguru

Wondercoin

I was speaking tongue-in-cheek! But canyou imagine how many labels are in drawers from crackouts?? Especially in high-end coins that are always tried for upgrade...POP sensitive coins, IMO.

DeepCoin

This is why many coins in holder "just" make it. While you may argue your coin is a 65 all day, the data would infer that it is a 64/65. Of the other 65s, how many look the same? It is the same coin today as it was last year, but your portfolio has certainly been increased. How would you feel if you had one of the 65/66 coins that you think should be moved up, yet here is another into your pop?

But it is all just fun and games in the Registry, so congratulations on a good score and a good eye for upgrade when you bought!

saintguru

Thank you...but regarding the coin, I felt it was a 65 from the onset and had Steve Duckor look at it since he was there. He has the best set in the world and he was the one who said it was a 65. FWIW, it was in an old holder. It's a 65...no matter what the spin. And I have had many coins that are under 10 POP that have been added to by others. I hated it! Sometimes you get the chicken and sometimes you get the feathers!!