Three '54-S Lincolns to submit to PCGS - Advice please

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 12:38PM

I have three '54-S Lincolns from an OBW roll that I want to submit to PCGS. They are beyond question at least MS67's and perhaps 68's! The pop is 86 in 67 and none in 68. Should I submit all three at the same time or "space them out?"

BTW, for those of you who are thinking, "Yeah right, they're 67's possible 68's - this guy is high..." - I think my track record with submissions and my eye will prove to be true. These are sweet in comparison to any 67 wheats I have seen - even better than the 67's I have "made."

Any thoughts would be appreciated, especially from my fellow "Wheat Heads."

Thanks, Mike

coppercoins · August 31, 2004 12:47PM

Mike - Submit them with a group - perhaps a dozen or so others that you've been accumulating. Toss in a "set-up" 54S that has nice luster, strike, and color - perhaps a 66 - just to remind them that they are seeing exemplary coins in the ones you believe to be 67 shot 68 coins. If they see "normal" with the "abnormal" they are more likely to notice and recognize it.

foodude · August 31, 2004 12:47PM

I'd submit the group.

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 12:53PM

Chuck & Greg -Thanks for your thoughts. Chuck - I really don't have some to send along, especially at $30 apiece in fees. Greg - I'm tempted to send them in one at a time, along with some other dates/MM's which are probably 66's. Maybe this would accomplish what Chuck was suggesting.

BTW Chuck - Still love your book, tho I haven't quite committed it to memory yet!

Mike

JRocco · August 31, 2004 12:54PM

Listen to Chuck, that was really good advice.

coppercoins · August 31, 2004 12:55PM

Just a thought, and someone else can correct me if I'm wrong...

Wouldn't it be very unlikely for them to give the first three grades of a finest known to a date/mint/denom that has hundreds of subordinates (i.e., common date coin, uncommon grade) all with one submission? I just got to thinking about that, and if Mike really does have three 68 coins he should probably do three different submissions sticking a couple of slightly lesser coins in with each of them. I would think he has a chance at ONE grade of 68 if they went together, but chances of all three making 68 would be slim. If they went in under different submissions with some fine, but not as fine, other coins of the same date/mint/denom they would have a better chance of all coming back 68.

Give them three beautiful examples and they'll find something to knock on one or two of them. Give them the finest one at a time and they might be wowed all three times. Something to think about. Anyway, if you really do have three 68 level coins, it's worth the extra bucks to get them in the right holder the first (or second or third) time.

edited to add: If you get a 68 on one coin the first time, the proceeds from the sale of that one could easily pay to make the others, even if you have to play cat and mouse to get them. Only pay attention to this part if you had intended on selling one or all of them.

clackamas · August 31, 2004 1:05PM

Send is some PQ66 1940's Lincoln's or 30's lincoln's. I get my best results from 50's coins when I have coins from multiple decades. I made a POP 3 (at the time) 67RD 51-P with a group of 30', 40's and 50's coins, I also made 2 67RD 52-S's on the same invoice. If you get your 67's and "REALLY" believe you have a 68 you can go to an invitational or contact Gerry. Gerry may be a buyer and help you set the coin(s) up with the only 55-S MS68RD. I can not speak for Gerry but he is open to many things. I have talked to him about setting up my 45-D that is uber PQ in 67RD. Make sure you get your coins back a look at them once they are in holders, I also suggest using at a very bare minimum reg service since copper will turn. I personally would use the 7 day service to assure the coins stay the color and then attempt an upgrade. Also send the coin FedEx over night to further diminish the time they are exposed.

LincolnCentMan · August 31, 2004 1:09PM

Mike,

I'd send them in...

David

richbeat · August 31, 2004 1:21PM

Got any San Jose mint marks?

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · August 31, 2004 1:26PM

Chuck,Mike and Clakamas

A bunch of children trying to fool the graders at PCGS by discussing their sly shenanegans on the message board.

Clackamas,do you REALLY think Gerry would give you a 55 s in 68 to play the game of Fool The Grader at PCGS ?

I'll tell you what to do.Send your 54 s cents to David Schweitz.He calls himself ms 68 on the message boards.He knows more than anyone !!!!

Stewart

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 1:30PM

Stewart, Stewart, Stewart - I don't expect any of the three to go 68. I do believe though, that they are 67's and PQ to boot. I'm not trying to play submission games, though I believe it might be a bit of a stretch to expect to get three 67's in one three-coin submission. That's all.

Mike

coppercoins · August 31, 2004 1:36PM

Actually I don't see it as a "game." I see it as them having a lot of work to do and very little time to notice when something really outstanding crosses their table. If they are given a soft reminder (a lesser coin) to look at, it reminds them that they have something really unusual in front of them. They are human and I don't put it past them to slap a 67 on a coin that deserves a closer look...given that 67 is as high as that date/mint/denom ever gets. If it looks great give it a 67 and move on....

Not a game here, just a suggestion on how to get them to stop long enough to give an incredible coin the attention it deserves.

STEWARTBLAYNUMIS · August 31, 2004 1:49PM

Chuck,

First of all the graders at PCGS are not normal.If you sat in a dark room looking at thousand of coins a day FOR YEARS.You would not be normal either.For the graders to notice something REALLY UNUSAL IN FRONT OF THEM........I can assure you it will not be a 54 s Lincoln Cent.They call it as they see it.

Mike - I bought a roll (two mini (25 coins each)rolls) of 1936 centsand sent the whole deal in for grading.Of the 50 coins, thirty of them graded ms 67.They are not afraid of making three 1954 s cents in ms 67 red !!!

Stewart

coinbuf · August 31, 2004 1:55PM

Thay may not be afraid to give the high grades to you Stewart; if thay were mine I'd space them out with set-up coins. BTW do you have any pics?

Chris

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 2:00PM

Stewart: Thirty of fifty graded 67?!? The pop in 67 is 172 compared to 86 for the '54-S. Would this make a difference?

BTW, where in the H*ll do you find these rolls? Oh, and BTW again, YOU SUCK!!!

Mike

haletj · August 31, 2004 2:14PM

All I can say coppernicus is... good luck! In my (raw) short set I think I only have 3 ms67's. 42-d,47-s and yes 54-s. I wish I knew if they were really that nice or not but not going to pay $16 each to find out!

Edited to add... I put two 1997-p Lincolns in my first ever pcgs submission, thinking one could set the other up for ms68. I got the ms68... on the coin I didn't expect it. I guess I learned the graders liked perfect mint frost and a tick rather than no ticks but very slight frost disturbances. I'll probably try sending the ms67 in again someday.

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 2:24PM

haletj - In my Registry set, I have these in 67: 35-P, 37-P, 38-P&D, 39 P&D, 41-S, 42-S, 43-P,D,&S, 44-P&S ans 45-S. They're all nice (many of them were selected from multiples) but none are better than the three 54-S's I'm looking at. Some are "ties" but none are better. That's another reason I think I have three 67's and PERHAPS, a 68.

Mike

coppercoins · August 31, 2004 2:27PM

<< <i>I guess I learned the graders liked perfect mint frost and a tick rather than no ticks but very slight frost disturbances. >>

You learned fast. That's exactly what will set a modern 68 off from the 67s. Perfect naked eye luster.

haletj · August 31, 2004 2:30PM

I think you'd do fine no matter how you sent them, in any which way or with whatever other coins!

haletj · August 31, 2004 2:35PM

Thanks coppercoins... you know instead of trying the ms67 again, I should look back through all the others I put aside and send some of them in. Many have perfect frost too but I usually could always find at least one flaw that made me think not ms68.

clackamas · August 31, 2004 2:59PM

>>Clackamas,do you REALLY think Gerry would give you a 55 s in 68 to play the game of Fool The Grader at PCGS ?

ABSOLUTELY! But he would not "give" me or someone else the 68, he would set it up himself at an invitational (or more likely have David or Andy set it up) and be the buyer if it made it at a prearranged price to make sure you would not get it if you could afford it. Wouldn't you if you could get the coin cheaper if it worked? A POP 1 68 with Billbe would probably bring $30K at auction. If Gerry could "set it up" and get it for less than at auction you better believe he would and would be smart to do so.

majorbigtime · August 31, 2004 3:02PM

<< <i> Should I submit all three at the same time or "space them out?"

>>

I would wait until the moon is in the 7th phase and Jupiter is aligned with Mars!

Coppernicus · August 31, 2004 3:04PM

Hey Clack - Is the '55-S 68 you're talking about the pop 1 in the PCGS pop report? There are so many 55-S's out there (raw, rolls, slabbed) that I'm a bit surprised there aren't more that made 68.

Mike

coppercoins · August 31, 2004 3:05PM

<< <i>but I usually could always find at least one flaw that made me think not ms68. >>

Rest assured that if you can find it they can too. Plan for 67, hope for 68. Keeps you from being pissed and gives you a nice surprise if your hopes are realized.

clackamas · August 31, 2004 3:20PM

<< <i>Hey Clack - Is the '55-S 68 you're talking about the pop 1 in the PCGS pop report? There are so many 55-S's out there (raw, rolls, slabbed) that I'm a bit surprised there aren't more that made 68.

Mike >>

It is a monster, I believe you can search through the heritage archives to get a picture of it. It sold for $7475 in Sept. 02. Everyone probably called Gerry crazy for paying that money then. Was he? Essentially, in this new era of super prices paid for top coins, PCGS will require the coin to be a monster to give it a 68. You know what I am talking about, so many of the "old" 67's are not 67's if submitted today, to make a 68 today it really has to be a monster.

here is a link but I am not sure it will work since I had to login to get the pic. Link

Three '54-S Lincolns to submit to PCGS - Advice please

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