How Do You Go About Completing a High $$$ Sale?

bleacherbum

Hypothetically, lets say you have a set that's in the $20k range and there's a potential buyer on the West Coast and you're on the East Coast. How would you go about completing this sale? Any thoughts on this would be welcome. There are a couple of things that peak my curiousity:

- How do you handle the exchange of the cards for the money?
- What form of payment? I was thinking cashier's check.
- How do you ship a $20k item?
- What do you do about insurance?

I guess I could go on & on since I have no concept on what would need to happen.

Thanks,
Steve

1954

Simple, spend $250 each and one fly up for $500 to the location. He brings cash you bring the set. Get back on the plane and go home.
Or spend $195 on shipping the items, hope that his check clears, hope that no one knows (IRS) that you sold an item for $20K, and worry about it for three years.

SL

onegaucho

For a $20k range set, I'd agree. One of you flies and meets the other. Insurance on the set would balance out the airfare.

Better peace of mind as well - and for a set of that value, it'd be cool to meet a fellow collector and talk shop. With cards exchanging hands over the internet/mail these days, talking to people in person about cards has become a lost art...

Vargha

I have done transactions of this size a few times. Certified funds (money order or cashier check) and USPS Registered, Insured mail worked fine in every case.

Griffins

I"ve done one like this as well. Bank transfer, registered mail. It cost just under $40. to ship insured, registered.
I would not even consider anyone other than USPS on this.

VMFA115

I agree...USPS Registered will insure up to $25k. If your selling no biggie once you get certified funds...if you the buyer best to check out the seller (feedback, these boards, other reputable dealers (not an oxymoron), etc. etc. or fly in.
Dave C.

acowa

If I have the set...I take a cashiers check and let it clear. If I have the cash, I might make the trip depending on if I know the seller or not?

Regards,


Alan

bobsbbcards

Both of you fly to a show (Ft. Washington, National, etc.). Besides having the peace of mind of exchanging goods and cash in person, you get to attend a show and either have fun spending your new pile of cash, or cry about all the things you could have bought if you hadn't just spent $20,000.

Bob

Vargha

There's no crying in baseball cards.

Fuzz

Please remember that bank drawn Cashier's checks and money orders are certified funds but not guarenteed. You can stop payment on either form of these payments. The only guarenteed funds are a USPS money order (which have a low limit so there would be several) or cash. If you are hiding from tax purposes (which A - no one would ever recommend & B - you only pay taxes on the profit so they are probably small if at all) then cash. But remember you can't anonymously put $20K in cash in your checking account (or take it out) either.
Meet at a show if possible.
Fuzz

Virtualizard

<< <i>...But remember you can't anonymously put $20K in cash in your checking account (or take it out) either... >>




Why not? I did it last year when I sold a nice chunk of cards (about $18,000 in case you're interested). I never had any problem.

JEB.

bobsbbcards

Whenever I sell anything for a large sum of money, I take the bills and jam them down the front of my pants. You should see the looks I get!

If you think about it, if every guy did that with his dough, chicks would be disappointed when they finally ran into some guy who was well hung but low on cash. Revenge of the well-to-do.

Bobby Wad

wlf3

i've been on both ends of these kind of deals... I like to see and pick up my purchases.... but selling I have received personal checks (held it for nearly a month to "clear" - he knew ahead of time, cashier's check, and once I got $16,000 in cash (registered mail, insured lol). It's really how comfortable you both are with one another and what you're willing to do or not.

Buckwheat

Jeb,

You can feel quite confidnet that the bank reported this to the Government. In fact, if I remember correctly, they are required to report any cash deposits of $10,000 or more. This arose out of the war on drugs in an attempt to stop money laundering.

I have done two deals in this range, as the buyer. I simply sent payment, and the seller sent registered mail. No problems at all. I had never met either of these sellers, but had dealt with both several times previously.

Buccaneer

Now I know how some of you guys are able to build registry sets. Lol.

Virtualizard

<< <i>Jeb,

You can feel quite confidnet that the bank reported this to the Government. In fact, if I remember correctly, they are required to report any cash deposits of $10,000 or more. This arose out of the war on drugs in an attempt to stop money laundering... >>




Rob,

What would I expect to see from the IRS, or any other Govt. agency? It has been well over a year, and I've never been contacted by anyone. If I ever am, I can prove that I sold at a loss! Do I then get a tax break on the sale?

JEB.

Fuzz

JEB,
Old Doctor Buck is dead on on this one as usual.
The bank would report it to the government and more than likely you will never see or hear anything about it. On the off chance there is ever an audit you will want to have the records handy.
I believe that under a schedule C sale you can deduct the loss against future profits made on the gain of the sale from cards but I am pretty sure that they want all the sales reported.
I have had dozens of these filed on my behalf (allow an extra 10 minutes at the bank to make a withdrawl of that type --- mine fills the forms out while I wait) and have never heard a word but I do file everything. I suspect that you will never hear anything but I keep the records just in case.
Fuzz

wlf3

two words... Smaller deposits

or put some into different accounts. Or save it for the National next year, and blow it there. lol

bleacherbum

Thanks for all the helpful comments. As always, the expertise on this board is unparalleled.

Vargha

The losses can go on Schedule C unless you are in "business". Otherwise it is a hobby loss and not reportable. Just for the record, I have lost money on every card transaction that I have ever made.

gregm13

To clarify Vargha's comment, you can deduct the losses if you are in the business of buying/selling cards. If selling cards is not a full time occupation, you can only deduct losses up to any gains. The remaining losses can be carried forward (I believe - I haven't dealt w/ hobby losses before on a practical basis). However, any income/gains from the sales of cards is completely taxable (assuming you don't have losses to offset) and is reportable as misc. income.

In regards to the reportability of large payments, every bank (I think merchants are required also - such as a car dealership) is required to report deposits over $10k (I think to the DOJ) OR other suspicious behaviour. My suggestion would be to split up the deposit between several accounts - preferably at separate banks. Nothing illegal about doing so - but it lessens the chance that anyone will ask questions.

Regards,

Greg M. (I'm a CPA in between buying/selling cards...)

dstudeba

Greg M. brings up a good point. They have to report a cash transfer of 10,000 or more, but they also have to report 'suspicious' deposits. Therefore 9,999 will probably be reported, or three deposits of 7,000 into 3 seperate accounts at the same bank will probably be flagged.

Casinos are also required to report these transactions. In a casino order to fly below the Fed's radar, keep any exchange under 10,000. In order to fly below the casino's radar keep cashouts under 2,000.

jimtb

Be careful of bank checks and certified checks. I work for a credit union, and unforunately, we see fake and/or forged ones all the time. Call the issuing finacial institution to verify authenticity first!
Jim

Ruthfan

Any cash deposit or withdraw of $10k or more is reported to the IRS and DEA. I purchased a very large collection in Pittsburgh with cash and a couple of weeks before I just made withdraws of about $7-8K every 2-3 days where nothing would get reported. I have a friend that is in the banking industry and he told me that if I did it that way it would not be suspicious.

1967topps

Very interesting thread - since last winter I was trying to sell a 1967 complete set with
approx 300 graded cards. With about 50 cards in each plastic closeable box weighing in
at something like 13 pounds, shipping was going to be crazy a)to calculate b)to actually get 'em
all in a big box or two to ship. (Wound up paying $60 in reserve fees to find out that nobody
wanted to give me 10 bucks a card despite that many graded including stars, worth it to me
not to have to settle for a grand less).

Will probably try again this year, though I haven't been encouraged by midyear results
(didn't toppsgun have a high end '67 complete set that didn't get any bids), even though
the set will now have close to 500 graded cards (all 7 or better). Or maybe I go to Fort Washington
and help the winner load his car rather than deal with the postal service at all. However,
the winner won't have to help me load the cash in the interesting way that one poster
described...LOL

1967topps

>>transactions over 10,000

I saw it on the Sopranos so it must be true - Carmella making deposits of $9800
and the banker commenting that for just $200 more....

Buckwheat

1967 Topps-
I bought a complete graded 61 set of almost 600 cards. IT was all shipped together without too much trouble registered insured mail for about $120 or 20 cents per card. He packed the cards in 5 #4 priority boxes 7 X 7 X 6, and then put these boxes with peanuts into two ready post boxes from the post office, shipped together as 1 of 2 and 2 of 2. Registered shipping was about $25, and insurance was about $95 for $30000.

Tomorrow I am shipping 125 cards out by first putting them in 6 PSA boxes, and then putting them all into a bigger box. It really is not too big a problem. Weight is about 1# per 10 cards.