I am amazed

earlwbollinger

I do not mean to insult anyone, but it is pretty interesting.
But I am amazed that someone would spend $100 plus for a couple of pieces of leather with a impression
of a 1856 FE on them. I would also think that they would have made a few hundred impressions while they had
the coin out and the big press or vise handy while they are at it, not just one.

1856 coin impression Leather tabs

Steve27

"Surely this intriguing lot will end up in the hands of the dedicated small cent collecor."

Maybe a "collecor" would want it.

Russ

<< <i>I would also think that they would have made a few hundred impressions while they had
the coin out >>



The auction description would indicate that it was done with the dies, not a coin. If that's the case, it may not be as common an item as one might think.

Russ, NCNE

BASEagle

<< <i>I am amazed that someone would spend $100 plus for a couple of pieces of leather >>



You forgot to mention ...



<< <i>There is a 20% commission charge added to each and every lot. >>




sheesh. Me, too.

Mike

kenoshapete

And, oddly enough.... no pictures of the leather tabs. . .

earlwbollinger

The auction description would indicate that it was done with the dies, not a coin. If that's the case, it may not be as common an item as one might think.

Oh yeah, I forgot all about that. Someone tested the dies out on some leather bits and pieces before they tried striking
some test planchettes.
Thanks for remembering.

Shamika

If these are period pieces, I think it's pretty cool.

grip

23 negatives in the last 12 months?

Russ

<< <i>23 negatives in the last 12 months? >>



Most of them are from one idiot.

Russ, NCNE

grip

Thanks Russ,it does make a difference,I never got that far,just saw 23 and moved on.

Conder101

I wish they had a picture. If this is what I think it is I've seen them sell before and they will bring a LOT more than the opening $100. I think the last time it was into four figures. These are some really interesting looking pieces.

Rob790

Nice!

MrEureka

I saw something similar years ago. Maybe the same ones. Showed them to a friend and he gave the right answer:

To be reverse impressions and real, they would need to be hub impressions. Ever see a hub with denticles and rims? Of course not. Verdict: Bogus, as catalogued.

Conder101

<< <i>Ever see a hub with denticles? >>


Why wouldn't a hub have denticles? They have to get them onto the die somehow. Actually I would expect the hub to have denticals but possibly not the raised rim, because the section of the die that created the raised rim could be created when they machine the die to create the neck of the die. But the raised rim area could also be created by the hub in which case I see nothing wrong with these leather hub impressions.

Rob790

If you can take a coin and make a tin impression then why not leather. I don't know if the pieces I've posted up are the items up for auction but I'd bet it's similar cause the projected price is too low for something that would be a no-doubt mint product. I'd like to carbon date that leather and see if it matches the 1856 date.

MrEureka

Interesting. Clearly I'm wrong about hub impressions never having denticles. I'll modify my earlier post in a moment just in case I've misquoted the master.

Rob790

The real problem with this piece is that hubs with dates were not used until 1878, but that date is 1856! So very likely, it's a post mint product. Wonder how many of these are out there?

The seller says "A curious piece illustrating the lengths to which we numismatists and collectors will go to insure all of our spare time is spent being productive."

To me that implies that the seller believes that the piece is an outside mint job. Is there any other reasonable interpretation of that statement?

tradedollarnut

The real problem with this piece is that hubs with dates were not used until 1878

Hmmm.

magikbilly

<< <i>The seller says "A curious piece illustrating the lengths to which we numismatists and collectors will go to insure all of our spare time is spent being productive."

To me that implies that the seller believes that the piece is an outside mint job. Is there any other reasonable interpretation of that statement? >>



Hi
I also do not like that sentence!
Billy

Rob790

<< <i>The real problem with this piece is that hubs with dates were not used until 1878

Hmmm.

>>



That proves nothing there is no reason that a hub impression could have been made and the date punched in after as a test to see how the date looked, as a matter of fact look at the piece below it, no date or signature label!

Conder101

A date could also be punched into a master die and then used to raise a dated working hub.

Rob790

Auction ended at only $120, wonder if it would have been higher if they used a pic?

shylock

Thanks for pic Rob, I knew I'd seen a photo of this somewhere. Do you know what they originally sold for in the Early American History Auctions sale?

Coinfacts suggests the most likely scenerio is they were made outside the mint using an actual coin. When you consider the pressure needed to imprint this design in leather -- and the quality of the coin that would impress this much detail -- it's hard to imagine someone subjecting an 1856 to that. Unless it was done before they were fully appreciated for their rarity.

Rob790

Sorry Shylock, I don't know what it sold for in the Early American History Auctions sale but Conder101 suggested that these could go for four figures so it seems that someone got a really great deal! I should have bidded ...

I think Coinfacts is correct, this was an outside mint product and is probably why it got such a low bid. I also agree that it must have been done quite a long time ago before these were worth tens of thousands of $$$$$ in mint state. As far as the difficulty in making a leather impression, I don't think it would be that difficult. You can make an almost perfect impression of a coin by placing it in a vice between two thick sheets of a soft metal like tin or lead with practically no ill effects on the coin. And leather is way softer than either of these, even with low pressure and using a long time frame, you could probably reproduce this type of item but I don't think anyone with any appreciation of an 1856 FE cent would try this these days.