Hamm and "his" gold medal
Jersey
Posts: 542
in Sports Talk
I don't see how this guy can insist on keeping that medal. Doesn't he have any pride? What kind of example is this for the youngsters? What do you think?
Wise men learn more from fools than fools learn from the wise.
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make two CRUCIAL mistakes, one to put Hamm in the 2nd spot and then another mistake to put him
back in the gold? the gymnastics part of the olympics was a joke. The Russian nails his routine and they give
him low scores and then everyone boos for 20 minutes and then they CHANGE HIS SCORE????
Im glad he kept it, he won it fair and square!
USA USA USA USA
JS
Yes, the judges screwed up and awarded him the Gold Medal, but the evidence evidently clearly shows that they shouldn't have. To me, this doesn't fall so much in the "subjective" aspect of so many past mistakes such as the figure skating controversy 2 years ago in Salt Lake City where a duplicate Gold was awarded to the "Silver Medal" winning pair. It appears to me to be an "objective" mistake, that would be easily corrected.
Then again, I can somewhat understand Hamm's stance. Does this instance differ that much from say, the Stanley Cup Finals overtime win a few years back by Dallas over Buffalo. In that case, Brett Hull's feet were clearly "in the crease" before the puck, thereby nullifying the goal that was subsequently scored. That was never corrected and Dallas was allowed to keep the Cup.
So I'm not 100% sure on the Hamm situation. All I feel is that the "morally correct" thing to do would be for Hamm to return the Gold Medal. I think he would then come out smelling like a rose, instead of some spoiled brat.
JMHO
Steve
after reviewing that, he had two mistakes that they didn't write down.
JS
<< <i>at first it looked like they didn't give the South Korean enough points but then
after reviewing that, he had two mistakes that they didn't write down. >>
Wow Joe, we agree on something. I'm not sure of 2 mistakes but I do know that on the Korean's parallel bar routine, he did 4 'stills' meaning 'rests', such as when completing a hand-stand. You are to do 3 - period. The judges clearly missed this obvious blunder as was evidenced by reviewing the tape. And the pentality, which is clearly stated in the rules, is .2 of a point deduction.
So even if they got the 10.0 difficulty correct the first time, the REAL score should be .10 LESS that he received. So now, with that in mind, let's still put the burden on Hamm's back and not the officiating - give me a break pal!!
BOTR
ps) I also agree that the Russian's score on the high-bar was an absolute Jay-Oh-Kay-Ee!! Unreal.
However, based on what I have seen, I am convinced that Paul Hamm would not be singing the same tune if the roles were reversed.
I just cant see him understanding and saying thats the way it goes, that the proper procedures were followed and all of that.
He would be outraged and the American public would be DEMANDING that justice be served.
Imagine if you will you are playing in the Superbowl
and your team plays hard and wins by 1 point with a last
second field goal...
then THREE DAYS LATER the coach of the other team
says that he saw on the replay when he watched it
at home that there were 12 men on the field when your
team kicked so you would not have really won and demands you
Give back the SB Trophy and let them be the superbowl champs.
BUT he does not want anyone to look at all the mistakes
that the refs made that went in HIS favor... like the Korean gymnasts
He only wants to focus on this one mistake - and did not
challenge it DURING The game like he should have
but rather waited THREE DAYS and complained to the press
and the league
Now do you think that they should give up their trophy?
Of course not
that is the way the game is played and you cant go back
and change the game like that 3 days after the fact.
One thing Ive never heard, do the coaches get the chance to review the judges scorecard at the meet? If not, how would they know it they made a mistake or not?
Still, if it went against the US, we would be all over it demanding the gold.
<< <i>I think this is all pretty stupid.
Imagine if you will you are playing in the Superbowl
and your team plays hard and wins by 1 point with a last
second field goal...
then THREE DAYS LATER the coach of the other team
says that he saw on the replay when he watched it
at home that there were 12 men on the field when your
team kicked so you would not have really won and demands you
Give back the SB Trophy and let them be the superbowl champs.
BUT he does not want anyone to look at all the mistakes
that the refs made that went in HIS favor... like the Korean gymnasts
He only wants to focus on this one mistake - and did not
challenge it DURING The game like he should have
but rather waited THREE DAYS and complained to the press
and the league
Now do you think that they should give up their trophy?
Of course not
that is the way the game is played and you cant go back
and change the game like that 3 days after the fact. >>
<< <i>I think this is all pretty stupid.
Imagine if you will you are playing in the Superbowl
and your team plays hard and wins by 1 point with a last
second field goal...
then THREE DAYS LATER the coach of the other team
says that he saw on the replay when he watched it
at home that there were 12 men on the field when your
team kicked so you would not have really won and demands you
Give back the SB Trophy and let them be the superbowl champs.
BUT he does not want anyone to look at all the mistakes
that the refs made that went in HIS favor... like the Korean gymnasts
He only wants to focus on this one mistake - and did not
challenge it DURING The game like he should have
but rather waited THREE DAYS and complained to the press
and the league
Now do you think that they should give up their trophy?
Of course not
that is the way the game is played and you cant go back
and change the game like that 3 days after the fact. >>
I agree with you 100%
Plus who cares about the Koreans whining...remember 1988 when they STOLE the gold medal from Roy Jones Jr. in boxing after Jones kicked the sh*t out of the Korean but lost the decision. That was a REAL INCIDENT OF CHEATING. Hamm deserves the Gold and will never give it back. GOOD FOR HIM.
<< <i>actually you are wrong, at first it looked like they didn't give the South Korean enough points but then
after reviewing that, he had two mistakes that they didn't write down.
JS >>
EXACTLY. But you don't hear an outcry about this in the media or from the Koreans. Screw them. They LOST. Period.
<< <i>I personally think that he would come out looking great if he were to give back the medal, thereby showing his good sportsmanship. As it is, IMHO, he comes off looking like some spoiled brat thumbing his nose at everyone.
Yes, the judges screwed up and awarded him the Gold Medal, but the evidence evidently clearly shows that they shouldn't have. To me, this doesn't fall so much in the "subjective" aspect of so many past mistakes such as the figure skating controversy 2 years ago in Salt Lake City where a duplicate Gold was awarded to the "Silver Medal" winning pair. It appears to me to be an "objective" mistake, that would be easily corrected.
Then again, I can somewhat understand Hamm's stance. Does this instance differ that much from say, the Stanley Cup Finals overtime win a few years back by Dallas over Buffalo. In that case, Brett Hull's feet were clearly "in the crease" before the puck, thereby nullifying the goal that was subsequently scored. That was never corrected and Dallas was allowed to keep the Cup.
So I'm not 100% sure on the Hamm situation. All I feel is that the "morally correct" thing to do would be for Hamm to return the Gold Medal. I think he would then come out smelling like a rose, instead of some spoiled brat.
JMHO
Steve >>
You are wrong. If Hamm did what you suggest, then the "morally correct" thing for the Korean to do would be to hand it right back to Hamm because of the mistakes the Korean made that were not noted, but found after reviewing the tape. This crap could go on all day long...reviewing the tape and finding errors in every event in Gymnastics, men or women. This is why they have the rule about protesting a mistake IMMEDIATELY and not after the competition. Rules are rules. You don't have rules and then toss them out the window because of a "feeling" you have.
<< <i>I agree, Jersey. It's kind of a tarnished gold and it would be a great display of sportsmanship if he gave it up. But as joestalin says, it's also kind of ridiculous for the powers that be to request that of him since they're essentially the ones who created the mess. >>
There is nothing TARNISHED about Hamm's gold. It's too bad you think that. He won Gold. Period.
<< <i>One thing Ive never heard, do the coaches get the chance to review the judges scorecard at the meet? If not, how would they know it they made a mistake or not? >>
Yes,
and in fact in this same set of compeitions
the US caught, and APPROPRIATELY challenged
3 incorrect start values - it was done by the
Olympic and International Gymnastic rules
and scores were marked correctly...
(this is routinely done at ALL major competitions...
by all teams... because mistakes happen,
but you can't igmore them and later complain...)
the Korean's did nothing. Then 3 days later
someone else pointed it out to them and they
expect the rules to of the compitition to be changed
just for them.
Sorry, but that is completely unacceptable and innappropriate
The IOC agrees and has said they did not follow the guidelines
therefore it is a done deal. Even th FIG or IFG (whatever they are called)
has even said that it was on them to catch it in the designated
timeframe of the compitition - all they did was "request" that Hamm
give back the medal, which the USA Olympic comittee flat out said
that THEY would NOT allow him to do.
Sorry, no instant replay. Life's tough. Deal with it.
And if you want to go back, see the "4 stills" argument.
Pound sand!
-KHayse