GAI grades trimmed cards????
sammyslippers
Posts: 30
I just recently purchased 2 GAI graded cards. One was a 9.5, the other a 9. I sent them off to PSA for a crossover and I specified "any" for minimum graded. I just got my order status and both of the cards are labeled with evidence of trimming. I bought these cards from two different dealers from two different parts of the country. I could understand getting ripped once, but twice? I mean these are the only two cards that I've ever sent in for a crossover. I guess you could imagine my frustration. Does anyone have similar experiences with crossovers? My understanding of GAI was that they were a pretty reputable grading service. I even asked PSA and they said the same. Any suggestions, comments, stories??
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Comments
Chad
It's tough grading thru a holder, and I suspect the gasket that GAI uses makes it even harder. I"m sure PSA is erring on the side of caution.
At least this is what I woud like to think.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>That's great. Kind of tempting to try my hand at a good trim job and submit it with a couple hunded other cards. Think they would catch it? >>
I use to believe PSA would catch the trimmed cards, until I read THIS THREAD.
GO MARLINS! Home of the best fans in baseball!!
I haven't had any evidence of trimming from GAI to PSA.
Anything or everything that was once GAI (whether in a holder or pre-grade)
goes to PSA in raw form. Grades have either stayed the same, but the majority
has always been bumped up a grade by PSA for me.
Here's also one thing about the GAI holder.....
That black insert sleeve that GAI uses sometimes has a lot of room in there.
I'm thinking if you sent it in the holder like that for crossover, it may give the
impression that the card is smaller when you first look at it.
I don't know the process involved during a potential crossover; but I wonder
if they actually measure the card from outside of the holder.
<< <i>I bought my first card graded by GAI and all I can say is that I really hate the holder. >>
Really? I dig the GAI holder! I personally think they did there homework.. In fact, I'd rate it neck in neck with SGC. Again, just my opinion..
Chad
While these problems are expected to be weeded out by the grading companies, many are not caught as graders get lax from time to time, but the majority are caught... but then a new problem exists, the card that was caught the first time is then resubmitted over and over until it finds it's way into the hands of one of those graders who had a lazy moment, and then finds it's way into an unwarrranted slab.
The solution to this problem, although it would not completely solve it but surely would help calm it down, is to add an element of risk to submitting... PSA, GAI, SGC and BGS need to formulate a standard among themselves whereby basically, they all agree that if a trimmed or altered card is submitted to any of them, they will stamp TRIMMED or ALTERED across the back of the card, like in the example below. What this will do is eliminate multiple submissions of trimmed cards, and it'll certainly cut out the practice of someone spending chunks of money to buy mid-grade slabbed cards then trimming them and submitting over and over until they are reslabbed. The submitter would sign a disclaimer upon sending in their submission that would give the grading company the right to mark the cards.
I am also a huge fan of eliminating cracking by having the grading company print the card's grade and serial number right on the rear of the card in some type of invisible ink which would not damage the card in any way, and have this become an accepted standard for sports cards.
I think a possible solution would be to consider an "off" size as a defect, whether it be under size or over size. I don't see an off size as any different than a card being off center, or the photo tilted, or the card out of focus/poor registartion, it is an imperfection. Some people who pulled shorter cards out of packs might be disappointed, but again not any different than pulling a card that has perfect corners, edges, and surface, only to be centered 80/20. If a 10 means perfect, it should always be cut to the correct size. This is a physical attribute, just like corners or edges, and not subjective like "eye-appeal".
This approach would lower the overall grade of the card, thus discouraging any trimmers from trying to get higher grade by performing alterations. Graders would still need to use their judgement to determine whether or not they think shorter cards were altered after market or not, and not just slab anything that is off size. So a legitimate short card could still get a decent grade, but not the maximum, just as 90/10 centering automatically disqualifies a card from being 9/10.
I had many cards from the mid 70s to early 90s, and off size cards weren't too common in my experience. Some years of OPC hockey were bad, and certain years of Donruss baseball in general had poor quality control with lots of diamond cuts and off sizes in both directions (pack cards, not factory set cards). I never had stacks of card earlier than that, so I can't comment on those. Also I would expect the new cards printed today to be very cosistent.
But unfortunately, it's way too late in the game to make a huge change like this, especially with all the outstanding graded material. Unless the trimming problem gets to the point where it destroys the graded card market, don't expect to see anything happen. Just look at the WYSIWYG incident. It was a major negative for the industry, but people have moved on and accepted it, and continue to trade graded material. A lot of collectors who believe trimmed material graded by a reputable company still continue to buy/sell/submit graded cards, myself included.
Worse comes to worst, they send to BGS or PRO. Check out the other thread in this forum where they discuss a BGS 9.5 Bonds rookie that appears rather obviously trimmed. That card was bid up to three times the PSA 10 value. That is how well the Beckett PR machine on their 9.5 grade has worked. Trimmers (and victims of trimmers) are taking advantage of the easy pickings in Beckett nation.
As for PSA vs. GAI, I agree with those who say PSA often calls GAI cards trimmed or below the requested grade until the card is submitted raw. It has happened to me. (For some reason PSA does not have the same distaste for SGC graded cards. Could it be because SGC is not run by people who had differences with PSA and departed?)
If it's too difficult to grade through a holder, they should not offer that service.
<< <i>
Really? I dig the GAI holder! I personally think they did there homework.. In fact, I'd rate it neck in neck with SGC. Again, just my opinion..
Chad >>
as far as looks, i love the GAI holder.. i really hate the sgc holders..
<< <i>I think a possible solution would be to consider an "off" size as a defect, whether it be under size or over size. >>
I believe PSA already qualifies these as Miscut. I've had a few oversized cards come back with the MC qualifier on them.
Currently collecting.....your guess is as good as mine.
edited.. spelling..