Is it possible to positively authenticate a heavily polished, well circulated coin?

MrEureka

Without an impeccable provenance, I doubt it. Anyone else have an opinion?

coinguy89

With the technology they got these days I bet you could do it.

MrEureka

With the technology they got these days I bet you could do it.


Remember, it's harder to prove authenticity than prove a coin fake.

ccr

The FBI labs in Washington DC could. To what degree, I don`t know. At least more then the major third party graders I would think.

MrEureka

It's cheap enough to non-destructively analyze the composition of a real coin. Once you have that info, it's easy enough to mix up an accurate alloy. Then, prepare copy dies and strike up a bunch of fakes. Then, polish the hell out of them. How will anyone know they're fake?

ddink

What you're saying is that people could easily make coins, polish them up, then sell them as genuine, albeit cleaned, coins?

ccr

OK I see your point now. I really don`t know. Interesting question.

MrEureka

What you're saying is that people could easily make coins, polish them up, then sell them as genuine, albeit cleaned, coins?

It's not easy, but I think it can be done. I've thrown the question out to the Forum to find out if I'm missing something.

ddink

And since they're advertised as cleaned, who (besides ANACS) would even bother trying to determine if they were real? That's very interesting.

MrEureka

who (besides ANACS) would even bother trying to determine if they were real?

I'm not convinced that ANACS can positively authenticate a coin that is so far gone.

LUCKOFTHEIRISH

Who cares as long as the coin has been improved.

MrEureka

Who cares as long as the coin has been improved.

You can't improve a fake by polishing it. Get real!

LUCKOFTHEIRISH

Sure you can. It would become more fakelike.

ddink

What I meant is that most people would say "Gee, if he's honest enough to say that the coin is cleaned, the seller must be an OK guy." They'd never think that the seller "manufactured" the coin.

I agree, though, that even ANACS probably couldn't tell a real coin in G-4 from a fake coin in G-4 that's been heavily cleaned and subjected to artificial wear. The same is true of a coin in AU or MS--if it's cleaned heavily enough...who knows?

robertpr

I'm not an expert but wouldn't the metal be less dense directly under where die cracks, etc were on the coin even if these defects were polished off of the actual surface?? So theoretically it would still be possible to determine what the surface characteristics of the coin were pre-polishing?

I'm not saying anyone actually does this today but in the case of a suspected fake ultra-rarity in G4 or something...

MrEureka

I'm not an expert but wouldn't the metal be less dense directly under where die cracks, etc were on the coin even if these defects were polished off of the actual surface??

Not in the case of a struck counterfeit.

LUCKOFTHEIRISH

The die crack would still be there, and you would have to remove a few thousands of inches of the surface to remove it completly. Not likely when polishing the coin.

MrEureka

The die crack would still be there, and you would have to remove a few thousands of inches of the surface to remove it completly.

Transfer dies, i.e., fake dies made from real coins, will exhibit the die cracks of the original coin.

dorkkarl

i agree w/ your initial assertion, if the coin were polished to the point that die diagnostics were removed. ditto for heavily whizzed coins.

K S

sliderider

Luckoftheirish,

Congratulations on creating a new grade!! Deep Mirror Fakelike!!!