Random, off-the-wall musing on what it means to be "modern"

ziggy29

Amidst the discussion about collecting "moderns" and all that stuff, I got to thinking about what it means to be "modern" and what, if anything, is the "Mason-Dixon line" that separates the classics from the moderns.

I think back to 1974 -- thirty years ago -- not long after I started collecting with my dad's well-worn duplicates and the Whitman penny...err, cent albums. I was eight years old for most of the year. At the time, I never would have considered a coin from 1928 as "modern." A 1928 Buffalo, a 1928 Merc, a 1928 SLQ, a 1928 Walker or a 1928 Peace Dollar? Those aren't modern -- heck, they're 46 years old!! They're obsolete designs! (With the cent design only being half-obsolete.) And I would have been thrilled to own these coins at that age...in ANY grade!

Now fast forward to 2004. I look at coinage of 1958 -- Lincoln, Jefferson, Roosevelt, Washington, Franklin -- and I think to myself, "modern coins!" But these coins are 46 years old -- every bit as old as the so-called "classic" designs of 1928 (except for Lincoln I guess) were in 1974, also within my scope of recollection!

So what exactly constitutes "modern"? Does it refer to age? Does it simply refer to dead presidential designs (and other statesmen as a nod to Ben Franklin)? Does it refer to a time when mintages and survival rates became so ridiculously high relative to the collector population that supply would almost always mean that circulated pieces would never be worth more than face (or melt) value? Does it simply mean a design that's currently produced, or at least one that was widely used during what we remember in our lifetimes? (If the latter, a 80-something or older might remember IHCs, V-nickels and Barber coinage to be "moderns!")

I'm just curious what your thoughts are. I didn't mean to wax all philosophical, but as I thought about it more, I thought it an intriguing idea.

golddustin

In a nutshell, yes.

cladking

Everything is perception. Just as an 80 year old can be a kid, an 8 year old can be a very old "man".
A forty year old coin can be old to someone but then a fifty year old coin can be "new" to the same in-
dividual at a later time.

It is curious listening to old timers lament the passing of the old coins in circulation like they were in
1960 while today the average and oldest coins are generally older. The perception is that there's
nothing in circulation except for new coins and most collectors just have no interest in them. One day
this perception will change and it will likely be a sudden shift for most people and for the coin collecting
community as a whole because contrary to popular belief, time don't fly, it bounds and leaps

lordmarcovan

"Modern" in a US coin context is difficult to define exactly. For many, the shift to clad coinage is a good line of demarcation. Since I was born that year, it works for me. Anything that was made in my lifetime is "modern", whereas anything made in 1964 and earlier isn't, exactly. But some of those pre-1964 coins can also be called "modern", in a way. Depends on one's opinion and the context in which the word is used, I suppose.

Now, c'mon over to the Darkside for a moment, and you'll see the term differently. "Modern" world coinage is usually considered to be anything milled rather than hammered- in other words, coins struck by the more "modern" method of manufacture, starting around in the 1600's or so, but not widespread until the mid-1700's.

wam98

Maybe moderns are the coins that are still in circulation today, the Lincoln cent, Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dimes, Washington quarter, and Kennedy halves. I think that would be a good designation for moderns, though some of the early coins are as hard or harder to get than the classics. What does anyone think ?

DHeath

Ziggy, it's a thoughtful post. I suppose if pressed, I'd come up with a definition, but when I focus on coins, I see no distinction between classics and moderns. I try to understand the coin, and its place in the scheme of things. High mintage/high survival rate coins are the same to me, regardless of the date minted. Morgans behave exactly like Kennedys in the market, in that they are only conditionally rare. 100 year old proof Barber halves with total mintages under 1,000 frequently sell for less than far more available coins. What's a 32-D Washington in 65 worth. Classic/modern? Who knows. I just buy what I like at a price I think is fair. Demand drives the market. When there's a lot of interest in coins that aren't "rare", I think many would like to label those more popular coins moderns, whether they're Morgans, Peace dollars, Washingtons, Lincolns, or any other widely collected fairly common series. I don't care that much about the politics of it all. To me they're just coins.

1904 Proof Barber - PCGS PR65 (total mintage - 670 pieces)
32-D Washington - PCGS MS64 (total mintage - 436,800)

Russ

Moderns begin in 1948 with the death of Miss Liberty.

Russ, NCNE

SanctionII

What is modern?.................hmm.............. As a kid in the 60's I thought Linc, Pete & the Twiggy blonde (can not remember her name, Julie maybe) of the Mod Squad were extremely modern. Now I look at the show and laugh at how old it looks and feels.

Regarding coins and the topic of moderns, I posted on this topic recently and obtained dozens of very interesting opinions from forum members.

For reasons I can not articulate very well, I view moderns as post 1964 (post 1970 for halves) since that is the date(s) that silver left our coins. It may well also have something to do with my age group (late 40's) and the fact that after JFK was assassinated, the country and the world left the comfort (perceived, and not real) of post World War II peace and proceeded down the path to where we find ourselves today.

majorbigtime

"Random, off-the-wall musing on what it means to be "modern"

Ask Russ, the self-proclaimed expert on moderns. I'm on record about my thoughts regarding this sutff.

khayse

The problem is that the current designs have been in effect for so long. Almost 100 years for the cent, 70+ for the quarter, about the same
for the nickel. Really throws off what is "modern".

-KHayse

Russ

<< <i>Ask Russ, the self-proclaimed expert on moderns. I'm on record about my thoughts regarding this sutff. >>



Russ already posted an answer. It's always a good idea to read a thread before putting fingers to keyboard. For most people - not necessarily you - it reduces the possibility of looking like an idiot.

Russ, NCNE

majorbigtime

<< <i>

<< <i>- it reduces the possibility of looking like an idiot.

Russ, NCNE >>



You should follow your own advice IMO!!

coinkat

And there is a completely different view that the modern era for coins is not limited by design but by the advances made in the minting process.

relayer

Here's last weeks discussion

You can also find them for June, May, April, March...

mirabela

Certainly a thought-provoking question. For me, it has to be the switch from silver to clad. As a kid, I remember that being the dividing line, any coin from the far side of which was worth saving. Pennies, I think my cutoff was wheat/memorial. Nickels, just kinda somewhere in there. 1950-something is classic, 1960+ is modern. As for all that, though, I also have a lot of respect for Russ' idea that 'modern' began when Miss Liberty left our coins. I'd love to see her brought back. Anything but Ronald Reagan...

ziggy29

For what it's worth, condescending "recycled thread" comment notwithstanding, I'm torn between whether it's (a) the final nail in the coffin for allegorical Liberty or (b) the debasement of coinage. A good argument can be made for both, I think.

orie

Maybe it's some where between the Peace Dollar and the Ike. Those Ike's didn't circulate much and neither did Kennedy halves. That would make it 1964 or 1971. Was that logic?

MoeSzyslak

<< <i>Russ already posted an answer. >>


And how often do you refer to yourself in the third person, Russ?

You have a good point about 1948, but Moe thinks the post-1964 cutoff works pretty well for US coins. Perhaps it's because Moe was born just before the last examples of circulating silver coins were minted, or perhaps Moe is thinking about circulating type coins that cannot be found easily in his pocket change. Moe isn't sure.