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Where can I get "unsealed" grading holders?

hodges14hodges14 Posts: 16
in Trading Cards & Memorabilia Forum
Hi everyone...I'm the new guy.

Does anyone know where I can get PSA type grading "slabs"?

I've looked everywhere, and am having no luck.

I could never afford the grading fees for my entire Mets collection...all I want to do is encapsulate them with my own tags.

If I can get the holders, I'll look into an ultrasonic welder..... a technology I'm familiar with.

The grading companies must be getting them from somewhere.....anyone have a source?

Thanks!

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    bobsbbcardsbobsbbcards Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭
    Hi new guy!

    Not to be too negative, but I hope you are unable to find PSA type slabs. If these were readily available to the average collector, you would see rampant fraud and deception. The flip is easy to make (you could hire a graphic artist co-op to match it exactly for the price of a Diet Coke). Auction buyers would have to start checking the cert. # for every auction they bid on against PSA records. Uneducated buyers would not even think to do that and would trust the slab and flip.

    I don't doubt that you want to use these to simply protect your cards, but you can see why the grading companies would want to make that as difficult as possible.

    Bob
    bobsbbcards PSA Registry Sets
    bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
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    ChrisStufflestreetChrisStufflestreet Posts: 145
    Hodges,

    Why not use the plastic two-piece holders found in hobby outlets? If you know how to seal them up, they should be useful.

    I agree with Bob on his reply; there are unscrupulous people out there who would take PSA-style holders and use them for less-than legitimate purposes. There are too many PRO and AAA-type graders who ecapsulate junk and sell them off to unsuspecting collectors.

    I'm not saying that YOU would do that, but I hope you understand why I think that way.
    Chris Stufflestreet
    Vintage Cards Specialist/Hobby Historian
    Vintage Baseball Cards website:
    http://www.obaks.com/vintagebaseballcards/index.html
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭


    << <i>
    I'll look into an ultrasonic welder..... a technology I'm familiar with.
    >>



    Hmmm I will assume you have one "handy" as some of the prices I have seen would make me want to have them done via PSA as it would probably be cheaper....
    Unless of course Im looking at the wrong Ultrasonic Welding Equipment......
    image
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    hodges14hodges14 Posts: 16
    I though this might "stir the pot" a bit....

    It seems anything to do with grading or grading supplies is quite the touchy subject, and with good reason.

    I know about ultrasonic welding because I did consulting work for a company in Connecticut that used that process for packaging......blister packs mostly but I had an opportunity to see how it works, and realize now what I was seeing is how the grading companies do it - with the exception of the holders.

    Perhaps I should just leave it alone.

    I still wish I could find something more permanent for my collection that lends itself to uniform labeling. Screwdowns just don't do it for me.....

    Still, I'd appreciate any info. anyone has on this.....I'd like to pursue it a bit.....

    Thanks! image
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    hodges14hodges14 Posts: 16
    Forgot one more thing, on the cost issue.....

    A full-size floor welder is quite expensive Aknot, you are right on that. If memory serves me correctly it was like $15,000 or so, not including tooling. (This was one of the things we were trying to convince them they didn't need....

    Well, when things got busy there, I would see some of the guys use a small hand-held welder to do the same job as the big machines. One guy expalined to me that you really had to know what you were doing, but that it would/could work if you did it exactly right.

    The hand-helds were cheap, like a couple of hundred bucks!

    I'm sure with some trial and error I can get it, i do have some understanding of the electrical cherge and pressure times required...

    Sheesh, this is getting so technical!

    Anyway, would still like any help anyone might have....

    image
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    jrdolanjrdolan Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
    PSA type holders + ultrasonic sealer = very bad news for our hobby, so please don't. Protect your cards in a more conventional way, and put your nice labels (that don't look like PSA's) on the outside.

    You may be honest, but an unscrupulous type with the materials and equipment you want to use could sell lower-grade and fake cards in holders that appear at first glance to be real PSA. They might even crack out PSA cards, resubmit raw, and use the flip with its hologram in their homemade slab. Bad bad news.

    Buying an ultrasonic welder for personal pleasure? Um OK, but I hope you fail in your mission.
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭
    hodges14,

    What would be the cost ratio in buying one of those things plus enoguh slabs to do your collection? I had inquired awhile ago on the boards about PSA just encapsulating cards. Maybe including the tab with the collectores name on it and in a completely different color "scheme" then the rest of the tabs and a "NOT GRADED" on the back of the tab.

    You figure $8 to grade a card in lots of 25. How much of that is spent on the grading/encapsulating. I figure the grading woudl cost more so lets say $3 just to label and encapsulate?

    PSA could probably make a little extra coin on the side with people that have "mondo" collections of a player/team/issue that they just want to preserve the card for future generations. I would love to "seal" my Marino collection for my son (6 now). But I really dont see myself haveign them graded, (all that is...) it sems much easier to buy them already graded....
    image
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭
    hodges14,

    Yeah Ive sent the handheld "pen" welders also.

    jrdolan,
    If PSA provided a service of just encapsulating I think it would help......a llittle..... image
    image
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    jvineyardjvineyard Posts: 256 ✭
    I have not used them, but if you just want a cheap way to encapsulate a card, these guys will do it for 99 cents a card.

    GradeMyCards.com
    John Vineyard

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    downgoesfrazierdowngoesfrazier Posts: 1,515 ✭✭
    Hodges,
    I'm flattered that you are using my card as your board icon. The '77 Bonds is an awesome card. I guess I must have had it in my sig line at some point. That's the only way I can think of that you got the image.

    dgf
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    larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,057 ✭✭✭
    Is this all a joke? If so, it's amusing. Otherwise it's just scary!
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭


    << <i>Is this all a joke? If so, it's amusing. Otherwise it's just scary! >>



    Which part? People wanting to physically protect their cards using the encapsulation process or People wanting to physically protect their cards using the encapsulation process?
    image
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    larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,057 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Is this all a joke? If so, it's amusing. Otherwise it's just scary! >>



    Which part? People wanting to physically protect their cards using the encapsulation process or People wanting to physically protect their cards using the encapsulation process? >>



    I love having cards PROFESSIONALLY encapsulated. Otherwise I probably wouldn't be looking at the message boards instead of working as I am supposed to be. However, talk of welding ones cards into plastic holders THEMSELVES is amusing. Can you imagine this ultimate do-it-yourselfer screwing up and tinging the edges of a prized card? Quite funny. image Plus it does naturally raises suspicions. It's almost like "subscribing to Playboy for the articles."
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    bobsbbcardsbobsbbcards Posts: 3,254 ✭✭✭


    << <i>[It's almost like "subscribing to Playboy for the articles." >>


    There are articles?
    bobsbbcards PSA Registry Sets
    bobsbbcards SGC Registry Sets
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    hodges14hodges14 Posts: 16
    Wow, apparently this issue is a big hornet's nest, and I've whacked it with a big stick!

    For those who don't know, ultrasonic welding isn't "welding" in any big, heat-related conventional way. It's a method of bonding plastics together quickly and safely, through a controlled electrical charge and pressure. There is virtually NO heat involved, and you'd be hard pressed to damage anything at all.

    I guess it's the nature of our hobby to be skeptical when the subject of grading and holders is discussed. The hobby is rampant with counterfeit cards, trimmed cards, and unsophisticated grading companies.

    That link to grademycards.com is actually quite helpful...at 99 cents a card, that's just the ticket I was looking for....as far as protection goes.

    I still think the collectors side of the hobby needs a tamper-proof holder with a labeling system for those of us that collect/document our cards uniquely. In my Mets collection, I like to identify the ballparks in the background or uniform (if "hatless" after a trade for example) of my cards. Every storge device I have tried has no means of doing this......

    That's all I'm trying to get at really: soild tamper-proof protection, with customized labeling.

    Thanks thought for all the input, I appreciate the open dialogue...


    image
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭
    larryallen73,

    I agree to a point. Why SHOULDNT I be able to encapsulate my card? I change my own oil, paint my house, do plumbing, work on my own computers, etc. Maybe they can make a slab that has no label "area", or a smaller section and a "white" writable strip (like the back of Credit Cards) to write some info on?
    image
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    TabeTabe Posts: 5,927 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That link to grademycards.com is actually quite helpful...at 99 cents a card, that's just the ticket I was looking for....as far as protection goes. >>


    I've had the same thought as you regarding encapsulating - that is, having all my cards encapsulated, not graded, thought not by me image I've looked into using grademycards.com as well and figured if I ever did, I'd just print up my own labels to make to identify the cards.

    I have in mind a display I want to make involving either David Carr or John Navarre and I'd like to have all the cards involved be in the exact same holder and protected, without paying big $$$ to have them graded...

    Tabe
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    downgoesfrazierdowngoesfrazier Posts: 1,515 ✭✭
    Hodges,

    I'm flattered that you are using my card as your board icon. The '77 Bonds is an awesome card. I guess I must have had it in my sig line at some point. That's the only way I can think of that you got the image.

    dgf

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    hodges14hodges14 Posts: 16
    I remember when I was a kid back in the mid-70's...

    There were 10 players in my neighborhood that got the most respect:

    Hank Aaron

    Tom Seaver

    Pete Rose

    Johnny Bench

    Joe Morgan

    Cesar Cedeno

    Greg Luzinski

    Steve Garvey

    Reggie Jackson

    and Bobby Bonds!

    Pete Rose and Tom Seaver were GODS to us......My first baseball mitt was a Cesar Cedeno model......good mitt.......

    Thanks for the use of the Bonds image, I always thought it was neat that he was on a different team every year in the late 70's...and we spent all summer 1977 looking for the Traded Cards from Topps that never came, like in '76.

    Makes me realize how fun collecting was back then, rubber bands, rounded corners and all.....


    image
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    pandrewspandrews Posts: 7,598 ✭✭✭
    hodges,

    welcome to the boards!.. read this thread..

    ·p_A·
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭


    << <i>hodges,

    welcome to the boards!.. read this thread.. >>



    While "secure" it still only protects it about as much a screw down. There is no "seal", so the card is still subject to "air" and such. Not saying its a bad thing, but it still not as good as "slabbing" when it comes to protection. BTW got an email:

    A new machine is approx. $9000 plus tooling ( I just inquired about the cost of a machine that encapsulates like PSA and Becket)
    image
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    downgoesfrazierdowngoesfrazier Posts: 1,515 ✭✭
    Hodges,

    Cesar Cedeno is one of my all-time favorites, too! I'll post a nice Cedeno. I have an 8, a 9 and a 10 and can't tell which one is the best so I kept them all. I'll be putting a couple of new cards in my sig line soon and I'll include Cesar.

    dgf
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    AknotAknot Posts: 1,196 ✭✭
    hodges14,

    THISis the reason people have problems with "normal" people having their own "slabbing" equipment.
    image
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    aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    The only place you might be able to buy unused holders is from Alan Hager or ASA card grading. Look him up on google or yahoo. He used to sell the holders (they are smaller than PSA uses) but that was some time ago.
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    metsfanmetsfan Posts: 834
    I have noticed these type of holders for coins. But for some reason the coin companies don't make card holders. It seems as though coin collecting is more progessive then sport card collecting(at leat in terms of holders).
    my ebay auctions
    Save on ebay with Big Crumbs
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    ToppsFleerDonrussToppsFleerDonruss Posts: 7
    Good point, Aknot. Thanks for the link. While hilarious what some of these scammers do, it is also very disturbing. I am just glad "do-it-yourself" slabbing isn't that common yet.
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    Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    While looking for something, I came across this ASA slab that was a sample given to me at the Hager table at a show. I guess people could have counterfeited his flip and made his own crappy graded cards - but who would know the difference? image I thought some might get a kick out of seeing this - when someone mentioned the ASA slabs for sale, I totally forgot I had this thing!

    image
    image

    Stone

    edit: it is my understanding that he has let his rights to this item under the patent lapse totally.
    Mike
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    aro13aro13 Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭
    stone193 - Yup, that is it. I thought I remembered that holder. Yes, he has let the rights to the patent expire. He had a great thing going until the Purdy article shut him down and shut him up. However, did you see where he has brought a lawsuit against some coin collectors on the internet for their comments against ASA grading of coins?
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    Stone193Stone193 Posts: 24,351 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>He had a great thing going until the Purdy article shut him down and shut him up. >>


    Aro
    Do you have a link to the Purdy article - here is a link to K6's site - he had a thread months back looking for a way to contact Purdy.

    K6's link:

    Mike
    Mike
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    TipemTipem Posts: 881 ✭



    Contact PSA.I understand that they had a bunch of them floating aroung a couple of years ago.Your next question should be,What is a WIWAG scandal?


    Vic
    Please be kind to me. Even though I'm now a former postal employee, I'm still capable of snapping at any time.
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