Superior's sale of Larry Shapiro's collection of dollars

lava

I just wanted to start a thread to see if anyone had any opinions.

As a specialist in this area, I think the most interesting observation I have is this. There were a lot of coins that would have worked for me, so rather than bidding moon money on a select few but within the total budget, I placed more conservative bids across the board for a total that far exceeded the total budget, but as a result I think I was outbid on nearly everything. In hindsight, this auction may have had very different results for me persoanlly had it been spread out over three sessions. Food for thought for any registry set owner thinking of selling.

K6AZ

I wasn't paying much attention after getting wiped out acquiring a 89-CC and 93-CC. Is the auction over now? Can someone post a link to the auction?

BigE

K6Az, here is the closest thing I can findShapiro Set------------BigE

K6AZ

Thanks BigE. I'm really curious what the final hammer price was on these, but it appears they haven't been posted yet.

rkfish

Good morning Lava,

After viewing Larry's auction I can honestly say things went extremely well for Larry. I understand you reasoning and thoughts but one thing you have to remember at this (or any) show......it's easier to get a "group" of collectors/dealers together one time than it would be three different times imo when their schedules are already "pushed" to the max with the show and other pre auctions and ANA auctions.

Now......if you had a collection of 400 or more coins in various series I would have to agree.....

Shamika

<< <i>In hindsight, this auction may have had very different results for me persoanlly had it been spread out over three sessions. Food for thought for any registry set owner thinking of selling. >>



It's quite possible that Mr. Shapiro got a better deal from the auction house by consigning his coins all at once.

jhar

<< <i>After viewing Larry's auction I can honestly say things went extremely well for Larry. >>


I bet!! You guys always have some nice Morgans on your website. The two I bought from ya'll are my favorites of my meager collection.

This sale with Superior was from Larry's personal collection wasn't it?? There were some Mega Nice PL and DMPL Morgans in there. Larry has a great eye. My question is, does Larry still have even nicer coins still in his personal possession or was this his complete collection of Morgans he sold??

lava

Steve, you make some good points. And I wasn't criticizing the decision, by the way, to sell everything at one time, it just puts some of the smaller budget people in an interesting predicament.

Did Larry ever share why he sold?

J'har, I think I can answer your last question. The coins sold were Larry's best, being the coins registered in his morgan and morgan pl and peace dollar sets.

gemtone65

I probably should keep my mouth shut because I'm sure Mr. Shapiro and his colleagues are very nice fellows. However, this is a chat room, where opinions and judgments are eagerly shared, so I'll pass along mine for whatever they are worth. In no way are my remarks intended to be taken personally, and I mean no disrespect to Mr. Shapiro.

I spent Sunday afternoon viewing all of the lots in Mr. Shapiro's collection. Although I no longer specialize in PL/DMPL coins, I used to have a pretty nice collection, so I think I know a little bit about what I'm talikng about regarding anything other than the super rare dates.

Mr. Shapiro's collection of Morgan dollars consisted mostly of PL and DMPL pieces. I do not think very many of the DMPL pieces had deep mirror surfaces, few of either the PL or DMPL coins seemed to have much cameo. Moreover, I thought the grades were a little generous, but then again, I'm seeing more and more of that these days. Certainly if you were looking to find an undergraded coin you were in for a challenge here.

So, at least for me, the fact that this was the number one PL set in the registry didn't count for much. Perhaps there is a message or two in this observation. First, how many people seriously collect PL sets (as opposed to say, DMPL)? Second, in an attempt to reach completeness in a set, and claim a top spot in the registry, perhaps sometimes less patience is exercized by the collector in choosing individual pieces.

Anyway, notwithstanding my previous remarks, I congratulate Mr. Shapiro on his registry accomplishment and, I'm sure, on the success of his coins in the Superior sale, although I haven't seen prices realized yet.

lava

Prices Realized

rkfish

Lava,
I would be happy to share that information with you via PM.....I didn't take your comments as "criticizing" and enjoyed reading your thoughts.

Jhar,
thank you for the kind comments.....we appreciate it greatly.....and yes, these were Larry's complete Morgan & Peace Dollar sets.

K6AZ

Gemtone, are you basing these comments on the images, or did you actually see the coins in person?

gemtone65

K6aZ: I spent 4 hours viewing the coins in person on Sunday. Following my remarks, I received an PM from a prominent forum member supporting my observations and giving some background on the these coins, in particular their grading history. PM me if you'd like more detailed information.

Barry

In this thread, which has since been edited, Larry stated he sent the whole set in for regrading. That's all part of the Registry game, sin't it?

lava

It is no secret Larry sent his coins in numerous times for regarding. I agree with gemtone 65 100% in his statement "Certainly if you were looking to find an undergraded coin you were in for a challenge here. " By the same token, I find it hard to fault an ms65 because it will not upgrade to an ms66 -- that is why the coin is in the 65 holder in the first place, and that is why PCGS is the most respected grader in the biz, since they are supposed to get it right more often than not, and since these coins have passed through PCGS several times, they had every chance to be upgraded if that was going to happen.

Gemtone65, I do have a question for you, since you looked at the coins in person and I did not. The Superior catalogue made many of the Morgan coins appear somewhat toned, which in the case of a mirrored coin might take away from some of the reflectiveness. Any comment as far as the toning?

gemtone65

Sending coins in multiple times for regrading virtually ensures that the final grades will tend to be low end for whatever that grade is. Not for all the coins, but for an unusually high percentage. This was true in my judgment for this set.

In terms of pure eye appeal, the coins were okay. But, had you shown a sample of these coins to any one of us here at the forum, and said that these coins came from the Number one PCGS PL Morgan dollar registry set, I guarantee you that the overwhelming response would have been, "no way."

The only gem coin I recall with a significant amount of attractive toning was a common date, lot #536. I seem to recall as well some 1921's with so-so toning, and a few CC's graded MS64 with orange toning.

The other coins were white. A few may have had insignificant amounts of rim toning. But, for the most part, the shades evidenced in the color photo's of the white coins were were not real -- possibly light reflection of some sort. These coins were indeed white, and I'll leave it at that.

By the way, as an aside I salute Superior for providing so many color photo's directly with the lots. The pictures were extremely accurate for the truely toned color coins. Well done, Superior. I expect that this tactic may force other auction houses to follow suit, surely a welcome development.

lava

<< <i>Sending coins in multiple times for regrading virtually ensures that the final grades will tend to be low end for whatever that grade is. Not for all the coins, but for an unusually high percentage. This was true in my judgment for this set.

In terms of pure eye appeal, the coins were okay. But, had you shown a sample of these coins to any one of us here at the forum, and said that these coins came from the Number one PCGS PL Morgan dollar registry set, I guarantee you that the overwhelming response would have been, "no way." >>



I agree there is no question that for a collection made up of repeat submissions, the coins that do upgrade end up being low end for the higher grade.

I think we need to keep in mind, however, that this is not the #1 pl Morgan set, regardless of Superior having described it that way. DWG has put together the finest set by far, and the set is still together. Denny has passed on, unfortunately, but his set is alive and kicking, and will likely maintain the status of being the finest collection of pl Morgans ever. As many of DWG coins are true DMPLs, I would suspect there would be little debate. Many of his coins are pictured in the latest book by Bowers on Morgans.