What's with all these auction coins going unsold??

saintguru

So many coins, all types...is it just reserves set too high or the market getting too high. I tend to think it's much more of the first, but it's a shame to see auctions where 30% of the coins don't sell.

goldrush00013

Maybe it's the Dog Days of Summer.

susanlynn9

Part of the problem is that summer is a slow time for sales. People are going on vacation or have other things to do. When the kids go back to school in September, you should see sales pick up. October/November are especially good with people buying for Christmas. Do you have any links to the coins that you are trying to sell?

Stuart

It appears to be the beginning of either a coin market correction, or at least taking a "breather" for all of the newly introduced coins to get absorbed into the marketplace.

By the way Susan, that's a nice author icon that you have selected.. I had to look twice because I thought that I had double-posted to the thread

MacCoin

I thing the seller are getting a little high on the reserves. they won't be happy until the kill the goose that laies the golden egg.

susanlynn9

Sorry, Stuart. I wanted to use my own avatar but couldn't find a way to insert it. I have a nice rainbow-toned bust half that I would have like to use. This one was the closest I could find.

Lakesammman

Don't forget that nice coins are getting put away and the stuff that keeps cycling through the auctions, nobody wants at any price. Nice coins are still bringing good prices while there is no price too low for substandard coins.

100proof1957

Reserves are kinda high.
you get the little guy that looks at the PCGS guide and figures thats the gospel !
myself,i use it for a guideline
NGC stuff,i wont pay over 30%
PCGS stuff,i wont pay over 50%
unless its something i just gotta have.
ex: was bidding on a 57 Linc in PR67 CAM,bid almost 50 % of guide @ like 131.00
doesnt meet reserve,i had e-mailed the seller as to the reserve b4 it closed and they would not divulge it.
i know im not supposed to ask,but i wanted the coin.
auction closed,un-sold and i contact the seller,reserve was 175.00,had they told me,i probably would have pulled the trigger,after some haggling i bought it for 120.00

susanlynn9

Personally, I don't think reserves are a good idea. You are better off starting the auction at the lowest amount you can accept. EBay Trading Assistants who are selling other people's merchandise for them may find a need for a reserve, however it is foolish not state what that reserve amount is at the outset. Buyers don't want to keep bidding higher and higher without knowing what the minimum amount is to buy an item. And, by the way, asking a seller what his reserve amount is is perfectly reasonable. If a seller does not want to divulge that info then he doesn't want to make the sale that bad or he has something to hide and should not be trusted. To keep the reserve a "secret" is foolish and does nothing except lose business.

ziggy29

I think a lot of sellers are shooting for the moon.

I see plenty of relatively unknown sellers setting reserves or opening bids at or above prices that established, reputable dealers are charging for some coins. It's no wonder these aren't getting any bids.

susanlynn9

Hi Ziggy, didn't expect to find you here. I agree with you. There are a lot of sellers that are new that don't know the market trends. I think there are a bunch of them that see an old coin and just make up a price that they think it's worth. The ones that attempt to grade are the worst though. I can't tell you how many Liberty Head nickels I've seen graded as Fine by these sellers that are worn smooth with no "LIBERTY" and they're saying that all lettering is clear. I don't think they even know that there is a "LIBERTY" on the headband. It's very sad.
By the way, are you using an avatar from this site or is there a way to use one of your own? I like my rainbow bust half that I use on the other forum and I want to use it here.

ziggy29

<< <i>Hi Ziggy, didn't expect to find you here. I agree with you. There are a lot of sellers that are new that don't know the market trends. I think there are a bunch of them that see an old coin and just make up a price that they think it's worth. The ones that attempt to grade are the worst though. I can't tell you how many Liberty Head nickels I've seen graded as Fine by these sellers that are worn smooth with no "LIBERTY" and they're saying that all lettering is clear. I don't think they even know that there is a "LIBERTY" on the headband. It's very sad.
By the way, are you using an avatar from this site or is there a way to use one of your own? I like my rainbow bust half that I use on the other forum and I want to use it here. >>

Yep. If you really can't grade, just take a good picture and ask the potential bidders to grade it for themselves and bid accordingly. Assuming they aren't asking an AU opening bid for a VG coin.

As for the icon, once a month a site administrator turns on the ability to upload your own icons and use them. When that happens, you'll see the profile page changed to add a button to allow you to upload an icon.

susanlynn9

I especially like the ones that say grade by the pictures and the pictures are just dark disks that you couldn't even ID the coin by, let alone grade or the pictures are so blurry that the grade could be anything from G4 to AU and there's no way to tell. Though I have gotten some good deals from pictures like that. You just have to be willing to take a chance.

coynclecter

I filter to about 100 coins a day and buy 2-3 a week. I don't know where these people get thier prices but some are looking at moon money for sure.
I've seen way too many with start prices at a grade higher than the coin is. Especially in old holders. Why buy for an upgrade try if the price is at a grade higher.

One good think is that given the sellers don't have a good grip on prices there are still bargains to be found.

MS66 walker

saintguru

Not to throw a wet towel on the discussion, but I was referring to the Auctions at ANA, not Ebay...but feel free to discuss amongst yourselves!!

coynclecter

Oh, you didn't specify.

However, I don't see much difference. They are still a lot who continually list the same items looking for sucker money.

On the other hand with the huge cut the auction companies take I don't think I'd want my coins to sell at less than full retail.

When a buyer pays 1000, the seller gets about 800, Thats a huge margin. Unless the item has some real esoteric value, Selling common stuff at auction is a foolish idea.

ziggy29

<< <i>Not to throw a wet towel on the discussion, but I was referring to the Auctions at ANA, not Ebay...but feel free to discuss amongst yourselves!! >>

I think the same thing still applies, albeit to a lesser degree since the ANA submitters generally know something about coins. There is a strong belief out there among many sellers that because the market is mostly hot, they can sell non-spectacular stuff with opening bids well above Trends or Greysheet "ask" prices.

But recently, there has been some resistance in the market, at least for run-of-the-mill stuff; the really desirable, high-quality stuff still commands top dollar and climbing. With this resistance, the sellers aren't seeing the buyers going after those excessive opening bids (or hitting reserves/buyback bids). This is especially true where the auction houses take a 10-15% cut. Whether a buyers fee or a sellers' fee, either way it reduces the amount the seller sees in their pocket by that amount. And if they want to clear nearly full retail value, they have to get at least 10% over retail, which fewer people are willing to pay in a market showing some resistance for ordinary coins.

saintguru

No...not quite...when the buyer pays $1000, the seller gets $1000(or 5-7%) more, while the buyer PAYS an additional 15% or actually 1150.

ziggy29

<< <i>No...not quite...when the buyer pays $1000, the seller gets $1000(or 5-7%) more, while the buyer PAYS an additional 15% or actually 1150. >>

Depends on whether the $1000 includes the buyer's fee. If it does, they only bid $870 (plus a $130 buyer's fee). So the seller only gets the $870 minus any other cut the auctioneers take from that sale price.

Unless the buyer isn't paying attention, one way or another the seller is paying for the auction, either directly (seller fees) or indirectly (lower bids to compensate for the buyer's fee).

susanlynn9

Either way it adds up to the coin not selling at retail - especially when the buyer has to also pay a fee over and above the selling price. That is one advantage that eBay has over the auction houses. However, I think you have a better quality guarantee through the auction houses than you get with eBay unless you find a seller that you know you can trust.

Shamika

Isn't an auction with a reserve kind of an oxymoron?

saintguru

Maybe , but in Spanish an OX and a MORON is an oxymoron. Now an OX with a MORON would be an oxconmoron?

saintguru

Ziggy,

Depending on the size and/or quality of the set it's possible to get 107-110% of hammer, so in essence the seller does get a fair shake.

OKbustchaser

I have no problem with setting a reserve. But tell me if my bid does not meet it.

Here is the problem with undisclosed reserves...

1814 half dollar

Internet bid at listed opening price...no notation that a reserve has not been met. I show as high bidder during live auction so I don't bump my bid any. It then closes not meeting reserve.

susanlynn9

I agree with you. Many buyers would be willing to bid higher if they knew it was necessary to meet a reserve and if they knew what the reserve was set at. And I still maintain that reserves should be avoided and start the bidding at the lowest price you will accept for an item. It makes things easier for the buyer, easier for the seller, and I know as far as eBay goes, cheaper. Setting a reserve costs more in that media than just starting the bidding at your lowest accepted price.

291fifth

Too much material has been dumped into auctions this year. The market is apparently reaching the saturation point for many items. Some of these items seem stale as well.

Bear

Interesting the B&M, ANR and Superior Auctions all

had the same characteristics. Average quality coins

received sub par bids or did not sell. Will have to watch the

ANA Show closely. While it may be the dog days of summer,

it could also be the start of a correction. The Long Beach Show

will tell the tale. This may only be the continuation of the two tier market

we have had for the past few years. There seem to be just too many auctions

and too many shows. The Industry always seems to push the limits of the envelope

untill it goes too far and can not avoid going over the cliff.

alergar

Slow summer bidding, start prices and BIN's set to high.
I have gotten a couple of coins by making low offers to sellers after thier auction ended with no bids.

alergar

"Isn't an auction with a reserve kind of an oxymoron?"

I like the ones that say "NO RESERVE" than have a starting bid price thats book value of the coin.

Doesn't that mean the starting bid is the reserve !!!

susanlynn9

<< <i>I like the ones that say "NO RESERVE" than have a starting bid price thats book value of the coin. >>


You'd certainly think so, wouldn't you?

GOLDSAINT

In our recent discussion about the coin market, and my personal Bullish feelings, one thing that I left out of the mix that might drastically slow this market is the consumers current debt load and their inability to buy coins even if the desires were there. I still think the demand is very strong, and also that many new collectors will enter the market, but we might see a case that people just cannot buy coins even if they want to. I don’t think there is any lack of money at the top end but these collectors want top quality stuff, and even rich people don’t want to jump on a train that’s slowing down. Many collectors use credit cards and bank lines to buy the coins they are looking for, but there is a time that a break must be taken to pay the piper. With hundreds of millions of dollars of coins changing hands the last few years we might see a case that we have demand, but just no cash or credit left to feed the purchases. Below are a few stats regarding this scenario.


“The most recent US Census data shows that the median household net worth in America is $55,000, most of which is home-equity. Without home-equity, the median household net worth is only $13,473.”

“Rising stock, bond, and real-estate prices made Americans feel wealthier, giving them that extra incentive to spend just a little bit more at the mall, at the car dealership and on their homes, but that feeling of wealth has left.”

“ Wealthy-feeling consumers have spent all they had: the personal savings rate dropped from 7.26% in 1991 to 1.69% in 2001 and is still dropping. Not having any money did not stop us from spending. Household credit market debt increased by 140% from 1991 to 2003. Not only are debt levels historically high, the amount of disposable income going towards servicing that debt is the highest it’s been in at least twenty three years, as far back as the data goes. This is despite record low interest rates. Not surprisingly, non-business bankruptcy filings increased by 120% from 1990 to 2002.”

“Consumers now have no purchasing power left: they spent all their money and all the money they could borrow.”

Boom

Speaking solely about eBay auctions. If there is a reserve, buyers will know in no uncertain terms. As for it being an oxymoron, I really don't know but I do know this. On every high valued item I have auctioned I have protected my investment by placing reserves and in most cases they sold and reserve fees reimbursed. It's a lot smarter to place a reserve on a $1000 item than to just sit back and take a chance, It's not worth it. I'd rather lose reserve money than the expensive item.

Case and point. I had a PCGS 62 1932-S that I placed both a reserve on as well as a Buy It Now price. I did this while I had a featured Gallery plus item, again with a reserve, being highly trafficked. I figured since people were coming in and I had their attention, to post this 32-S quarter last. It sold first, within an hour of putting it up there. The 10 day , other high priced item sold too(had a reserve) but I ran a little test and purposely did not place a reserve on a $265 item and sure enough, the little bargain hunters got me on that one.
I may have lost $60 on the un-reserved one but the 2 big daddies went. I had well over 1000 visitors looking at these key coins. So...oxymoron or not, I think it would be moronic not to protect your expensive items. I have also tried the other way, trying to beat the reserve auction fees by setting high opening bids and for me...IT DID NOT WORK!

susanlynn9

Boom, when you place a reserve on an auction, do you let the amount be known to the bidders?

coingame2000

I just returned from session 2 of the Superior sale hoping to buy a lot of nice PL and DMPL dollars. I only bought about a dozen coins and spent less than $25,000. My take - the reserves were too HIGH becuse a lot of coins sold back to the book. That's the way I see it frm Pittsburgh.

Mike

Boom

Sorry Susan, not usually! However if someone really wants to know and I know them or even if I don't but know they are sincere....I might give them a clue. Sorry because I am having private conversation and posting with all sorts of people at one time!

susanlynn9

Boom, this is just my humble opinion but I do the buying for our business and then we resell and do quite well. I have seen a fair amount of auctions that state the reserve price right in the description and have found that many of those auctions hit the reserve within the first 3 days. Have you considered making that information available in the description? I know when I am buying that a stated reserve does not raise any red flags for me but an unstated one does because I have no idea how high I would need to go to meet the minimum required. Again, just my humble opinion.

ziggy29

<< <i>Sorry Susan, not usually! However if someone really wants to know and I know them or even if I don't but know they are sincere....I might give them a clue. Sorry because I am having private conversation and posting with all sorts of people at one time! >>

I rarely use reserves, and haven't in at least three years. But when I have, I've hinted at the approximate reserve. For example, if I'm selling an XF coin, I might state that the reserve is less than current VF price guide listings. But usually I don't mess with reserves, and for big-ticket items, I've noticed the same thing as Boom -- no one seems to want to get the bidding started with a $500 minimum bid on a $700 item (until the snipers come to hit $500 with seconds to go). But start it at one cent and put a $500 reserve on it, and it's funny how it may zoom through $500 well before the snipers can take it out at that price.

But somehow, I just don't like reserves in principle and I dislike using them, though for exceptional circumstances I might.