Counterfeit Detection-- What do you do?

Veep

Over the years, I've studied quite a bit about spotting counterfeits. I've armed myself with some tools to prevent from being "taken." I have taken the ANA course and bought and studied videos. I own no fewer than six books on countefeit/altered detection. I have a stereo microscope and a scale accurate to .01 grams. A few questions:

1) Outside of buying slabbed coins, what do you do to protect yourself from counterfeit/altered coins?

2) Some counterfeits are so good that they're almost undetectible. Do dealers consider buying a counterfeit coin now and then a cost of doing business?

3) Does anyone own calipers? What kind do you use? Where do you find diameters more accurate than the 0.1 mm listed in the Red Book?

Thanks!

DesertRat

I usually toss the coin down on the concrete to see if it has that nice fresh ring to it. What?? That's not good to do??
(just wanted to bump it up so I can see the answers)

darktone

<< <i>2) Some counterfeits are so good that they're almost undetectible. Do dealers consider buying a counterfeit coin now and then a cost of doing business? >>

I am not a dealer but I buy lot's of raw gold and a bad one now and then is expected on my part- I think about 1-2 a year is what I expect. I won't buy $1 and $3 gold as thier are just too many fakes. I should add most of the counterfiets I get have been off the internet. I think having a few fake ones is a good way to learn what to look for. mike

tsacch

Mike, you have luck returning those counterfeits?...or did you eat it on 'em?

tom

291fifth

If the coin is of any significant value it MUST be slabbed. The time has passed for allowing exceptions. There are too many scammers out there who are well aware that law enforcement agencies are overwhelmed with security concerns.

Veep

ttt

Sequitur

Veep, what's your process for raw gold?

topstuf

Veep, it sounds to me like you are doing as much as you can. Books, books, books.

I remember when I was trying to learn. It is tough on gold especially. First clue is usually looks TOO good.
But that can cost you also as some really nice gold IS .....really.....nice.

Areas near design borders usually give away cruder copies but, man, they have got the new processes down pat.

On my hi relief, I used the PCGS grading book's pic of the gouge in the "U" of United to confirm it as a known attribute of a GENUINE piece.

But the best choice is already slabbed.

You don't get that luxury in a shop, but I got to where I got VERY few past me.

Three dollar telltale is usually a mushy feather turnover in the headdress but newer copies have licked that too.

Slabs also offer protection against the most INSIDIOUS danger which is WHEN they REALLY perfect copying.

Then a slab number may predate it from the process.
But also there has to be sufficient profit for them to really work on counterfeit gold when it is now so easy to do hundred dollar bills, phony stock values, Nigerian bank scams, conning old folks, etc.

ALL of which are far EASIER than counterfeiting coins.

Veep

I'll only buy raw gold that I can hold in my hand to inspect, or buy it from a reputable dealer and then I'm still going to look closely. I'll start with overall look. Sometimes color, mushy devices, poorly duplicated reeding, or granular surfaces will give away a "bad" coin.

If it passes the look test, then I'll pop it on my scale and see if it is within tolerances. I'd like to add diameter measurement as an additional detection tool, but need more specific info about specified diameters. Sometimes we're only talking about a couple of thousandths, but that is all it takes to find the fake.

I have many books with scads of pictures of good and bad coins of every denomination. Some of the "good" die markers can be committed to memory. But, there's far too much to be able to match-up good/bad all of the time. What I'm looking for is more of a regular process to follow that will weed out the bad stuff. If one slips through once in a while, so be it. At least I'll have done all that I can. I do have a process, but I'd like to add diameter measurement. Does anyone out there do this now?

darktone

<< <i>Mike, you have luck returning those counterfeits?...or did you eat it on 'em? >>

I ate most of them but most were real gold though so they were not a complete loss. I usually only pay $200-$500 per coins so my damage is limited. Those that don't buy raw gold will miss some deals but that means more deals for me- the one $5 indian that graded MS64 made up for all the bad deals of last year and the dozen or so MS62-63 $5 indians made a nice profit. I should say though that buying raw gold is not for everyone. mike

grip

I would try a micrometer.
Al

airplanenut

<< <i>I usually toss the coin down on the concrete to see if it has that nice fresh ring to it. What?? That's not good to do??
(just wanted to bump it up so I can see the answers) >>

In all honesty, I did flip a raw XF bust half like I was a referee a few weeks ago ... genuine

Conder101

<< <i> Where do you find diameters more accurate than the 0.1 mm listed in the Red Book? >>


Older Coin World Almanacs. They have a list of specifications that include diameters to .01 mm. They don't give a tolerance limit on diameters but I would think it would be +/- .02 mm.

coppercoins

The only place I have to deal with counterfeits is in the key dates of my series, the Lincoln cent. Most of the counterfeits are rather easy to spot with some education, and that's what I did. Books, examples to look at, knowledge of the design, knowledge of the markers for single die examples (like the 1955 DDO) - all of this comes in helpful. I wouldn't hesitate to buy any key Lincoln outside a holder because I am rather confident in my ability to spot the fakes and altered coins. I would be more concerned about buying one inside a holder because of the premium over value they often receive. Many of the key Lincolns in holders are overgraded by at least a point.