POP's ...are coins SPAWNING!!!???

saintguru

What do you think about the crack-out pros and dealers that submit key coins and save the labels?? I have seen some very expensive Saints in ms64 go up by over 50% in the last year, and they aren't crossovers, I'm sure. I'm concerned that in 10 years if PCGS can't find some solution the numbers can get exponentially high! POP 10's going to POP30???

zzzz

What about it?

Are you saying PCGS should limit the coins at any specific grade?

Why should PCGS "find a solution"?
There is no problem as I see it.

As far as saving labels, there is nothing you can do.

If there are 10 top pop coins now and 30 in ten years isn't it PCGS's resposibility to correctly grade the coins submitted?

PCGS isn't there to protect what you paid for a coin. Which I'm sure that is the crutch of this thread.

I personally bought a top pop 2/0 modern a couple years ago. Now it's still a top pop but it's now 11/0.

I feel lucky I only lost around $80 on it.

saintguru

Aren't POPs supposed to accurately reflect how many coins are actually graded? Now they reflect how mant labels havebeen printed. You must see the issue here.

100proof1957

rare is rare !
top pops change,but i would pitch 25-50% of the pop changes due to crack outs,maybe more if you see a coin that is say POP 61 in PR67 and POP 12 in PR68

saintguru

That's my point. I bought a 1908 Motto ms65...POPs were 8 a year ago...now there are 15...I know there were not 7 more graded ms65, but the numbers keep growing. Some dealers are sitting on drawers of old labels. It serves no purpose...accuracy (within reason) would be nice.

roadrunner

It will come down to you as the saint expert, to know that out of those 30 pieces listed that only 12-15 might be distinct ones. Therefore you can spend your dollars wisely knowing that actual pops might be half of what's listed. The actual number of pieces on the market will be far less than the pops. It will confuse those that believe the pops but the various Saint experts will know different.
It will be to your benefit in most cases.

In the future it will matter who knows how many pieces are really out there for various series and purchase accordingly. The pop counters will avoid coins with high pops. Look at the PCGS pops for an MS63 1839 no drapery half. 13 pieces. Very odd considering there haven't been more than 2 or 3 pieces appearing in the last few years. The NGC pops of 3 pieces makes more sense. It's just more data to sift through and eliminate the chaff.

roadrunner

nwcs

Well, pops are not a good measure of coins graded. Maybe relative measure. But anywhere where there is a price point where it jumps big time between grades, you'll see a lot of activity trying to get upgrades. I wish people would send in their tags. It would be courteous.

saintguru

mwcs...That's all I'm asking...but David Hall is having a hell of a time getting them to do it.

nwcs

Well, now PCGS has been paying people to send them in. I got a tiny check a short while ago (that I still haven't gotten around to cashing) for the labels I sent in. I think that money should make it worth while!

saintguru

What are they paying per?

nwcs

50 cents per insert

100proof1957

i think they pay 50 cents !
thats BS,i would'nt send em back either.
i have been looking for a 1957 Cent in Proof 67 or 68 cam
POP in 67 CAM is quite high,68 CAM is very low hence the big dollars !
How many of those 67 CAM pops are crackouts ? likely 50% or better !

Proof

RYK

They need to give more than 50c if they really want the tags to come back.

I suggested to David Hall in the Q&A that instead of 50 cents per tag, they should have a raffle for the submitters of tags and quarterly randomly draw one to win a PCGS 63/64 Saint, MS-69 American Gold Eagle 1 oz or some other universally desirable and liquid coin.

saintguru

Kind of sad that he has to bribe the people that make a living at this to help keep accuracy on numbers??

jacktheknife

What do you think about the crack-out pros and dealers that submit key coins and save the labels??

I'm not really sure why a dealer or "crack-out pro" would save a label. If they don't turn in the label then the pops go up. When the pops go up, generally the prices go down. Only if they get that coin into the upgrade might they "skip" turning in the label.

100proof1957

if the pops go up 50 %,say from 20 to 30 its still gonna be rare !
if the pop is inflated you still aint gonna find what ya want !
there will simply be no coins on the market because they dont exist !