Classic vs Modern - bridging the gap.
DHeath
Posts: 8,472 ✭✭✭
One of the immutable laws of the collecting universe is that a great percentage of modern collectors are impatient set builders. In the interest of full disclosure, I enjoy and am a supporter of moderns and modern collectors. Many classic coin collectors are VERY patient while waiting for the right coin to become available. Some modern collectors are patient as well, even spending years looking through raw coins looking for upgrades. Some are not.
I've seen plenty of posts regarding speculative modern pricing that are quickly labeled modern bashing that contain some truth and reason. Some are indeed pointless bashing by posters with no clue how the modern market works or which coins might genuinely be worth a premium, but some are well reasoned posts by good dealers/collectors with a strong concept of the coin market fundamentals.
I'd like to offer a few ideas I hope will be useful.
If you're a newer modern set builder and you're purchasing primarily holdered coins, be very patient, and very picky. Do your homework. There are a few coins in each series that are difficult and deserving of a premium, but MANY which are not. Invest some energy searching raw coins, and submit a few. You'll learn quickly what you're paying a premium for. If you were building a set of MS Sacagawea dollars a few years ago, you'd have spent a good deal of money buying an MS-67 01-D, likely $250+. That coin has been offered lately for around $110. This price drop has taken place while the market has moved strongly upward. MANY of the MS67 coins have a hit somewhere in the reverse field, and are generally not very satisfying. You can't just buy the holder. You'll spend a great deal of time finding a coin you like. If you need that coin to complete your set and it becomes available at auction, would you buy the holder? Would you pay a premium? Have you looked at enough of the 01-D's graded 67 to know what PQ for the grade looks like? Maybe you have. Most of the classic coin collectors who've spent years building sets can recite nuances of every date/MM within their specialty. If you're going to seriously collect moderns, treat them as coins. It's fun to complete a collection, but try to remember it isn't a race. It's easy to buy a collection, but that's a hollow accomplishment, and you'll be hungry again in an hour.
Knowing that these coins aren't generally rare, take your time. Find a COIN you like at what you believe is a fair price. Anyone can buy a set. Build one. Please accept my post as advice, not a lecture. Are there moderns that have increased in price? Absolutely. Largely because of the work of a dedicated modern collector, several varieties of 1972 Ike dollars have been mainstreamed by the community. If you were knowledgeable enough about the series to understand their relative rarity and accumulated a few several years ago, you'd have fared very well. Breen documented them years ago, but COIN collectors energy brought them to prominence. You wouldn't have known about them a few years ago if your research was limited to reading a PCGS/NGC holder, or a pop report.
If you're a classic coin collector, I'd ask your indulgence with regard to generalizations. Please feel free to point out irrational modern prices. Please feel free to advise caution. Please feel free to draw contrast between pricing for genuine rarity vs. condition rarity. It's a healthy discussion. I'd ask you to also avoid discouraging interest in ALL moderns, but rather legitimize their inclusion in the hobby, and promote intelligent interest in them, as they're a likely source of hobby growth. As a modern collector, I don't like irrational pricing any more than you, but I do enjoy the coins. Promote collector interest where you find it, and teach the newer collectors the skills of a collector. Participate in the discussions. Everyone will benefit.
I've seen plenty of posts regarding speculative modern pricing that are quickly labeled modern bashing that contain some truth and reason. Some are indeed pointless bashing by posters with no clue how the modern market works or which coins might genuinely be worth a premium, but some are well reasoned posts by good dealers/collectors with a strong concept of the coin market fundamentals.
I'd like to offer a few ideas I hope will be useful.
If you're a newer modern set builder and you're purchasing primarily holdered coins, be very patient, and very picky. Do your homework. There are a few coins in each series that are difficult and deserving of a premium, but MANY which are not. Invest some energy searching raw coins, and submit a few. You'll learn quickly what you're paying a premium for. If you were building a set of MS Sacagawea dollars a few years ago, you'd have spent a good deal of money buying an MS-67 01-D, likely $250+. That coin has been offered lately for around $110. This price drop has taken place while the market has moved strongly upward. MANY of the MS67 coins have a hit somewhere in the reverse field, and are generally not very satisfying. You can't just buy the holder. You'll spend a great deal of time finding a coin you like. If you need that coin to complete your set and it becomes available at auction, would you buy the holder? Would you pay a premium? Have you looked at enough of the 01-D's graded 67 to know what PQ for the grade looks like? Maybe you have. Most of the classic coin collectors who've spent years building sets can recite nuances of every date/MM within their specialty. If you're going to seriously collect moderns, treat them as coins. It's fun to complete a collection, but try to remember it isn't a race. It's easy to buy a collection, but that's a hollow accomplishment, and you'll be hungry again in an hour.
Knowing that these coins aren't generally rare, take your time. Find a COIN you like at what you believe is a fair price. Anyone can buy a set. Build one. Please accept my post as advice, not a lecture. Are there moderns that have increased in price? Absolutely. Largely because of the work of a dedicated modern collector, several varieties of 1972 Ike dollars have been mainstreamed by the community. If you were knowledgeable enough about the series to understand their relative rarity and accumulated a few several years ago, you'd have fared very well. Breen documented them years ago, but COIN collectors energy brought them to prominence. You wouldn't have known about them a few years ago if your research was limited to reading a PCGS/NGC holder, or a pop report.If you're a classic coin collector, I'd ask your indulgence with regard to generalizations. Please feel free to point out irrational modern prices. Please feel free to advise caution. Please feel free to draw contrast between pricing for genuine rarity vs. condition rarity. It's a healthy discussion. I'd ask you to also avoid discouraging interest in ALL moderns, but rather legitimize their inclusion in the hobby, and promote intelligent interest in them, as they're a likely source of hobby growth. As a modern collector, I don't like irrational pricing any more than you, but I do enjoy the coins. Promote collector interest where you find it, and teach the newer collectors the skills of a collector. Participate in the discussions. Everyone will benefit.
Developing theory is what we are meant to do as academic researchers
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
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Comments
<< <i>Anyone can buy a set. Build one. >>
PS: If I agree with everything you said, can I have 1965 SMS #2 from the ones you posted the other day?
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>
With post 1964 coins, if you're first look at the coin doesn't make you whisper internally, "I've just got to have it!" then pass. If you have to look longer than five seconds to decide... pass. Another will come that is a screamer.
peacockcoins
Thanks for your supportive post, from a modern lover!!
Katrina
It would also be good to keep in mind many of the points that you discuss are relevant to older series, too. A slightly less modern series such as silver Washington quarters provides an example in that the 1932 and Light Motto 1934 coins are struck from different hubs than the rest of the series and, as such, they look different. If one does not know that then they might pass on some better coins while they search for a piece that has the appearance of the later hubbed coins, and these just do not exist. From the opposite view, the Barber half series was re-hubbed in 1909 and because of this LIBERTY shows up extremely well in the headband. These coins are often overgraded because of this feature, with many folks buying them because of the added detail, and inferred higher grade, while ignoring the remaining features of the coin that might scream of a lower grade.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I can't tell you how glad I am you joined the discussion.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Excellent post.
roadrunner
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
It is especially interesting reading when considered in light of some of the observations
in Richard Giedroyc's column in the Aug 17, '04 Numismatic News (pg 34).
I've long maintained that there is very little difference between any two collectors even if
one collects classics and the other collects thimbles.
Bruce Scher