Buy a correct safe, fire rated

Maconlock

Many of you guys have a safe, you need a good fire rated safe, if you store away $1000s in coins and notes you should pay at less over $1000 for a good safe.

Cheap safes are cheap,there fire rate maybe 15 mins, you need a min of one hour or your wasting your money, hope the photo works out, he saved $100s in a safe but it costed him $1000

Conder101

Of course you get the trade off that most fire rated safes tend to have the problem of having very high humidity inside of them which can also damage your coins.

Bustman

I have read several times NOT to get a fire safe. They retain too much humidity.

Neptune

you really don't need to pay $1K - I lucked out and paid $10 for one of the best rated safes available - at a recent auction - worth up to $2K and quite large. It was locked, but my friend in safe bizness helped me open it - nobody else wanted it because they couldn't open. One of my best finds yet.

Maconlock

There is a problem with miss in some fire safes, but that from some of the cheap rated safe, they use a wood/Polly product that socked AFR, the good safe have a Concreat mix and the heat will dry out the concreat.

In short, Wood/Polly socked will place miss inside safe to protect intem, Concreat protect as a wall.

I have more info back at my office, I should post some good safes, but the rule of thum is to tell them that you want it to protect coins and paper and thoses types of safe are know as Fire Data safe.

Fire Data safes are made to protect PC Data Tapes and Back up disk, Feel free to Email me, My shop sells ATMs and we have people who are agents in each state who sell safe, and yes going to a yard sale is good, but there is no way knowing if the Fire safe has been repair or if the life span has run out, that why you some times see cheap fire safes at yard sales as there life span have run out and there not rated anymore.

Fire/Data safe have life spans,please keep that in mine, and also a smiple repair if not done correct can turn a fire rate safe into a non fire rated safe and your Insurance will not cover if they tell you that you must have a fire rate

Maconlock

I was asked by Email, so i will post here so everyone can benfit, I have a Phoenix datacare for my coins, it cost about $1000 new, It has a UL listing for 125/2, Most fire safes have a fire rate UL350

To understand,
UL 125 is the max temp that the safe should hold inside when there a fire 125.
UL 350 is the max temp inside 350., This gives you a problem with missed, know as water displacement, this will damage coins,paper,and PC data

UL 125/2hour is what you need, Also please take care if you buy a used safes, most insurance will not cover your coins as under the UL laws the safe only has a life span of 10 years, so a Used UL 125/2 safe ten years old will become a UL 350 and then in five years from that date it will not be classed fire rated any more.

Safe come in two types, Fire Resistant and Fire Standard,you need Standard to protect from heat and Data from water/missed

Some info about the UL testing
The safe is test first by heat, they will burn around the safe for one hour,aslong and the paper inside only turns brown and the drop test and reburn(This is done as the next step were a safe has been burn for one hour and then it droped from two storys and then reburn for one more hour)(they do this as a safe on a mult floors and in a fire can fall from top to bottom) If you get brown paper only it shoulf get a UL 350

Data fire is tested the same way, the data and paper can not be damaged from heat and water and the temp inside will only go as high as 125., the data must remain undamage

The good safes are Phoenix, fire king, look at there specs and see if they have data class,I can also latter tell you the best place were to install the safe in your house, but dont want to bore anyone

hope the info helps
Grant

Phoenix Datacare 2002

These safes are designed specifically to prevent data loss and media damage. A standard fireproof safe will only protect paper documents. If you want protection for your backup tapes, CD's, data cartridges, or anything made of plastic or containing data, you must have a fireproof data safe.

Details Rated 125-2 hour for Media, Data, and Plastic
Ideal for backup tapes, CD's, data cartridges, hard drives, diskettes, photographs, film, and any magnetic media.
"Slam action" automatic locking mechanism for emergency use.
Also protects against water damage, theft, dust, and humidity.


Specifications
External 24"H x 18.75"W x 18.75"D
Internal 15"H x 9.25"W x 7.25"D
Weight ** 238 lbs. **
Capacity 0.58 Cubic Feet
180 3.5" Diskettes, or 84 CDs in Jewel Cases, or 72 8MM Cartridges, or 168 4MM Cartridges, or 24 DLT Tapes
Lock Key Locking
Rating 125-2 hour
Warranty 2-Year Parts and Labor

Russ

Humidity buildup in a fire rated safe isn't really a problem as long as the safe is opened regularly. I don't know about you guys, but I open mine very frequently so I can fondle the contents.

Russ, NCNE

Maconlock

You should always use DataDry pack it a special absorbent material that attracts water vapor and holds it physically through surface absorption. One canister will maintain a safe level of humidity within a 3 cubic foot sealed space. For most effective drying, use in a small enclosed space.

You can also buy a dry backPack that is Batt operated,never store coins or Data with out the pack or Material box, you can buy them with the safe

If you keep you safe open, you must get into a good habit to close it when your done, I know of many that have forgotten and that day they lost everything, so a good habit will help you

ddink

<< <i>I have read several times NOT to get a fire safe. They retain too much humidity. >>



Just use dessicants like silica gel. It's like $5 for a two-month supply. Is it better to have to pay an extra $40 or so a year for dessicants or replace your entire collection after a fire?

Flying56eagle

Great info Maconlock
Sounds like you have done your home work or know what your talking about
anyways great info

ElectricEye

1. Fire protection in a safe equipped with insulation is NOT effective indefinitely. It has a shelf life. What may seem like a bargain on an older safe, may be a steel box as effective as a George Forman grill when it comes to storing your valueables.

2. Some insulated safes use moisture impregnated concrete to steam the contents in the event of a fire and keep the temperature below 350 degrees (flashpoint). Dessicant will prematurely dry out the fire protection.

3. Some insulated safes use a dry chalkboard material. Dessicant and/or an electrified rod dehumidifier can be used successfully to reduce humidity.

4. Approx. $700 will get a small UL listed RSC 2hr. fire protected safe with a dry type insulation.

5. A Sentry brand safe can be opened by in 5 minutes. There is so much moisture present in their safes, the run a 5-10% failure rate due to the wheel packs corroding and locking up as well as poor quality.

Sequitur

What ever happened to the Carson City safe from GSAGuy?

Maconlock

I should of told you

I worked at Perth Mint from the age of 17 to 24 tool maker, and from 24 to 30 was a locksmith/safe tech for RAC,I moved to the USA back in 2000 with family and run a Locksmith and ATM service shop in Mid GA, Macon lock and key

Have ATMs in all 50 states, and contracks with banks all over, Iam a master tool maker and Master locksmith , also was under contrack with Chubb Safes back in Perth were we did all the safes at Commonwealth Bank in australia and Indo,Singapore.

I also have made pro type of safes for Fireking

My coin collecting comes from working at Perth Mint when i was 17 years old, It was a great job making dies etc, moved to the secuirty area of Perth mint and then was offer a job with the RAC in Perth as locksmith .

I had to do 4 years at TAFE for tool making and the same for locksmithing/safe tech, I now do Expert wittness work for courts for Insurance places also.

I will like to help you guys all i can with any info,please feel free to ask

astrorat

5. A Sentry brand safe can be opened by in 5 minutes. There is so much moisture present in their safes, the run a 5-10% failure rate due to the wheel packs corroding and locking up as well as poor quality.

How can Sentry safes be openned in 5 min? I use one at work for data records and your comment is a little alarming.

Lane

ar18

I bought a liberty gun safe rated at 75 mins, installed a golden rod de-humid in it, the sealled the back and inside where the cord went through with a nomex, exopy, cement mixture I made myself. I hope it will do the job, but like was stated earlier, just put some dessicant in a sealed safe and moisture shouldn't be a problem. Go to a gun show and yuo can get a aluminum box of dessicant that you bake in the oven every 6 months or so to reactivate it. It also has a meter to tell you how much moisture the dessicant has absorbed so you will always know.

Best Regards,

Jeff

ms70

Just by good insurance.

ar18

ddlink, if you don't want to replace the silica every few months, empty the package in a pie pan and throw it in the oven on the lowest setting for a couple of hours and good as new. Just my 2 cents.

Jeff

ElectricEye

<< <i>How can Sentry safes be openned in 5 min? I use one at work for data records and your comment is a little alarming. >>



I prefer a 9/16" bit to make a hole to see the wheel pack and line them up. I use a 1 1/4" holesaw w/o the mandrel bit to cut thru the mounting plastic and retaining clip to defeat the keyed cyl. The electronic key pad Sentry requires a hammer and cutting pliers to remove the pad and short the solenoid. Voila.

PS ~ the SG-750 Silica Gel canister is great for gun safes. I use the candy bar size for ammo cans.

Maconlock

How can Sentry safes be openned in 5 min? I use one at work for data records and your comment is a little alarming...

It takes longer than 5 mins, but the correct drill point and you can open just about any safe, most cheap safes only have mild steel, good Jewelers safe of Banker safes have hard plate, hard plate can only be drill by a drill rig and one type of drill bit.

If you never drill open a safe, Don,t, Get a locksmith or safe tech, any small mistakes and will cost you big and the only way to get into it will be by milling the back off the safe off, then the safe is nolonger good.

Also some safes have relockers that are linked to Thermal or Glass plates, If the safe heats up (Trying to cut it open)the thermal link breaks sending the relocker into the safe frame (most times a safe has two or Three relockers)and then you never get it open unless you drill for each relocker, the glass plate is next to the lock, if you drill into the face you will hit the glass and the glass will break send the relockers off.

So safes have tear gas also, so only drill if your a pro, it not worth the problem and also it not like the films you see on TV, I been a safe tech for years and it takes me anywere from 30 mins to 5 hours, and i open safes for some big banks, BoA, First south ect.

And if anyone wants a good locksmith or safe tell, feel free to Email, Iam a member of ALOA and have a list of all locksmiths and safe techs in the USA

tporreca

Call me paranoid, but I'd not be comfortable talking about where and how I store my coins on a publc forum. I find safe-deposit the ulitmate in security (unfortunatly it means a trip to the bank to look a them). I've seen 2 posts in the past few weeks from new members (no offense Maconlock) talking about where you live (that turned out to be a scam) and now where are your coins and what kind of safe do you have. Fortunatly for me I have chain cent tastes on a state quarter budget.<FONT face=Verdana size=1> </FONT>

Maconlock

Iam no scam so there is no worry, you can check out my ALOA membership it have my address and bond details, I was only trying to help from a lot of Emails from others

ALOA member 46874 (Associated locksmiths of America)
Clearstar security network CCSM 0034
WAPD security lic 05053
Bibb county GA lic of Business 03-M7600-01-G1
I will be happy to Email anyone any info, Just wanted to help out, and I would of said something if it was putting someone at risk (Eg like i did about drilling safes)so far people have talked about types and what they use for protection, this info should be shared and is noway putting a member at risk.

today problem with collections is that many put the investment at risk by not storeing there collections the correct way like in the photo i posted were the safe failed, Part of ALOA it is my job to Explane to people the Value of getting a locksmith/safe tech to do a job and not to try to do it yourself (Eg service,picking the type of safe,open,repair)as a locksmith and secuirty tech know about these problems and are very willing to help out.

Also part of ALOA,WAPD we disclose everything to people who ask, if you want to see some ID,Paperwork etc trustworth locksmiths and safe tech will show you, you worry about the ones who refuse, I hope this clears up any misaunderstand, but so far i have not seen at one putting there collection at risk by posting details.

please feel free to Email for help or any info, my service is open and very willing to show correct paper work, bonds, insurnce, lic and even my home address.

respectful
Grant Edwards MCLA

Maconlock

Sorry, I was asked to post my website www.maconlockandkey.com , and also tell you guys about something that i come across alot as a locksmith, I can give you guys info about Secuirtyand tool making, but cannot give you much info about coins as you guys are experts, as one Email i got ask me to post how i turn up on this website, I can offer that service and in return you can offer me service about coins.


Now back to somethings that i come across alot, I open safes that have been locked from 10 years to over 100 years, and many safes have coins and notes in them,I use to tell my customer to take the old coins and notes down to the bank and exchange them for new coins and notes or just depost them into there account.

as a hobby collector of coins i was at a coins show and got talking to a coin expert about how i come across these old coins all the time and he beg me that next time to call him and he will make a offer for the coins, i did this for over ayear, give his details to my customers but I latter worked out what was going on with my customer, this dealer was telling my customers that the coins and notes are worthless and he would give them face value on what there worth and weeks latter selling the same coins at high prices, this kinda ticked me off as i feel that missleading my customers refect bad on my business so i stoped giving out details.

Only this year i have meet some great dealers at a coin show, some are members on this site and asked me to join, I told them that i cannot give them anything in return for help,but they told me this is the best place to find out info about coins and that some of the US experts are on this site, All I ask for in return is common stuff on coins like how much they are worth and what is the best way to sell coins to dealers or collectors so if i come across a safe full off coins i can ask what is fair for my customers.

I collect coins as a hobby only, trade coins and sell extra on Ebay, I have new close mates that are dealers here in the US, but i have been burn in the pass with this one dealer, so now i ask other dealers info about coins so i know that my customers get treated fair and are not taken for a ride.

like i said i was asked to post this,sorry for any misunderstanding,I sometimes jump in to fast to help ou

respectful
Grant