PAN/pre-ANA show discussion with digression on "originality", for a change ;)
RYK
Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
RYK
Posts: 35,797 ✭✭✭✭✭
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The show seemed quite active nearly the entire day. The type and quality of coins I like to handle seemed to be in even shorter supply than usual. High grade, eye-appealing, mint state classic type was extremely elusive, though there was some Proof material to be found.
I didn't come here with a large inventory, but I sold approximately half of it, without much effort. Now I'm getting nervous about replenishing it.
I will try to check back in this or other threads next week during the ANA show and after some of the auctions have taken place.
One other comment I'd like to make - and while it might be somewhat off topic, I think it bears repeating (more than once): The supply of un-dipped, non-conserved coins is diminishing significantly and literally, daily. I believe it's only a matter of time (please don't ask me how long) before the marketplace recognizes this AND gives the original coins their just due. If the demand should increase, that in conjunction with the-then-even-shorter supply could create a most interesting situation.
I went to the PAN show last year and was extremely disppointed. It was the first time I ever went to a show in which there was not a single coin in the room I would even consider buying. Maybe it was me having a bad day. I am sure that the "pre-ANA show" status has elevated the quality of material at the bourse.
I sure hope that you are right about your predictions for the marketplace recognizing the value of originality, and not for the obvious reason (that is, my dirty gold coins will be worth more). Until the pendulum swings and there is a price premium for originality and not for the grade # on the slab, I do not see how the trend of dipping coins will be broken.
Have fun in my old hometown. And stay away from Iron City Beer. It's a wonder that I ever developed a taste for beer after growing up on that vile liquid!
Edited for spelling only...really.
Very interesting Mark.
So Mark, what do you think it will take for this to happen? How on Earth are all the new collectors that are piling in to the hobby supposed to see the benefits of leaving coins alone when even the grading companies are glorifying coin conservation? Show them a record setting auction prices? What?
By the way Mark, I'll have nothing but original coins there. I am looking forward to having you stop by and spending a lot of money.
So until that practice stops, the supply of truly original stuff may ever dwindle.
BTW -
Hiya Jon! Hope all's well.
Hey Jon.... Don't you think it's about time you to sell that ugly azz non full head quarter to me in your icon!
<< <i>And stay away from Iron City Beer. It's a wonder that I ever developed a taste for beer after groing up on that vile liquid! >>
There is nothing wrong with Vitamin I.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
I truly hope that you are right about your prediction about original coins.
I personally think that the recognition in some shape or form from the grading services in regard to originality is in order.
The grading services...especially NGC, need to evaluate their stance on conservation and the grades they hand out to conserved coins.
V.r,
JOhn
siliconvalleycoins.com
Are you challenging the formula: NGC-58 + NCS = NGC-62?
<< <i>The grading services...especially NGC, need to evaluate their stance on conservation and the grades they hand out to conserved coins.
Are you challenging the formula: NGC-58 + NCS = NGC-62? >>
And there are not sliders in PCGS mint-state holders? I've never got a grasp on the theory if you dip an Au coin it looks unc.
Wear is wear, no matter blast white.... or nicely toned.... or butt ugly toned.
PCGS Proof-63 + NCS = NGC Proof-65 UltraCam
<< <i>Okay how about:
PCGS Proof-63 + NCS = NGC Proof-65 UltraCam >>
OK, that's better. But are you saying PCGS won't bump it up after NCS? Just trying to be fair.
PCGS-61 + NCS = NGC-63,
then NGC-63 crossover denied,
then denied again,
then crackout and bodybag by PCGS,
then retried and PCGS-62,
then back to NGC-62,
then back to NGC-63
then crackout and finally PCGS-63
Does that sound about right?
PCGS has been known to give the bump after a quick dip but I don't think they're as likely to slap a NCS coin with the super grades that NGC gives. The number of NGC Pop Top Proof Shield and Liberty Nickels is exploding for instance, there's new PR-68 Ultra Monster Deep Cameos everywhere you look. A lot of those coins wouldn't cross or grade at PCGS two points lower.
Don't get me started on NGC's practice of giving their fresh NCS'd coin the "PL" designation.
You mean like all of the SS Republic $20 Libs?
Why would they hurt themselves and do that?
I thought I remembered reading many posts here in past that PCGS downgrades coins if they perceive conservation (modern proofs excluded clearing out the haze)
I always found this somewhat interesting. Does a dealer really turn a profit if they do the following:
Buy a coin for $100, sell it for $125 and then buy a similar coin at the new price level of $125 and offer it for $150. Isn't that the same as just holding onto the original coin and asking $150?
<< <i>Jon speaketh the truth Mark, for why bother "not conserving" when, if you dip a gem proof, it becomes "PF-66" rather than "PF-65", with all the attendant financial rewards?
So until that practice stops, the supply of truly original stuff may ever dwindle. >>
It's really that simple. Clearly the services penalize original coins, because they seem to go up a point after being dipped.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
In your scenario, when the dealer takes his profit and sells the ($100 cost) coin for $125 (I only wish my margin were 25%), he has eliminated market risk, at least until such time as he puts that money back into the market.
You already stated the case of that newly upgraded NGC PF66 coin.
It may bring LESS money than before conservation as a PCGS 65.
In many cases the undergraded and original 65 coin brings more and often far more than the antiseptic NCS-PF66. How many conserved PF seated and barber coins can anyone look at?? They are all the same! Give me originality.
roadrunner
<< <i>And stay away from Iron City Beer. >>
Hey, I have a couple of empty cans with the good looking fat lady on them...
<< <i>
<< <i>And stay away from Iron City Beer. >>
Hey, I have a couple of empty cans with the good looking fat lady on them...
Sure! It was the "pale, stale ale with the foam on the bottom", brewed at Upper Crudney-on-the-Thames! The lady's name is Fatima Yechburgh.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.