A Very Tough World Series of Grading

homerunhall · August 10, 2004 1:16PM

We just put the finishing touches on picking the coins for the PCGS World Series of Grading finals next week at the Pittsburgh ANA. There will only be forty coins, but they will a lot different than what was used for the qualifying rounds...and they will be much, much tougher. Be sure to check out the list of coins we used and the correct grades when we post the winners in two weeks. I guarantee the list of coins will really surprise you, and I guarantee this final round will really separate the men from the boys.

Good luck to all the finalists.

David Hall

airplanenut · August 10, 2004 1:21PM

<< Did the graders at Pcgs take the test just to see how they did? >>

100%

spinaker2000 · August 10, 2004 1:26PM

for a true "World Series" there should be a darkside coin or two in the batch.

relayer · August 10, 2004 1:33PM

You could throw in some of my BB's and see if anybody will give them a grade

homerunhall · August 10, 2004 1:33PM

I predict the winning score in the professional division will be in the 75% range. And I feel that's about what an individual PCGS grader would score. This is a very tough test.

Remember that at PCGS we use the consensus method of grading and the final grade is derived from multi-grader input...which is more accurate than an individual grader.

PS...I don't think the winner in the collector division will score much over 50%....60% tops.

roadrunner · August 10, 2004 1:39PM

Bruce, I think you just got challenged in the collector division!

Let's hope some representative coins from the seated, bust, and barber series are well-represented this time. There's more to grading than just the 20th century coins.

roadrunner

techeff · August 10, 2004 1:41PM

Remember that at PCGS we use the consensus method of grading and the final grade is derived from multi-grader input...which is more accurate than an individual grader.

That's good to hear and somewhat comforting David. What do you do to ensure they're not in cahoots? Thanks!

OnlyBuffalos · August 10, 2004 1:47PM

Now that the World Poker Tour is on multiple channels every night, it will likely fade away in a few months. I think the World Series of Grading is a logical successor. If poker can be considered a sport by ESPN, etc., grading coins certainly can qualify as one. With a 20 second time limit on grading a coin, for one thing, there will certainly be a lot more action.

PCGS better jump on this now before Coin Vault steals the idea.

onlyroosies · August 10, 2004 1:58PM

The 40 coins instead of the 100 that was originally said would be in the finals changes everything.
I figured there would be a bunch of moderns mixed in so I have been taking consignments for eBay
just so I could see a lot of coins. I've looked at over 2000 coins in the last 6 months or so for
my training. Unfortunately 80% were 20th century and moderns. The change in quantity from 100
to 40 shots my theory all to hell. I wonder if I have time to get a refund on my plane ticket.....

Onlyroosies

haletj · August 10, 2004 2:16PM

Good luck Nick!

jcping · August 10, 2004 3:35PM

Mmmmm..... I am wondering whether there will be a lot of split grade coins, e.g., G10, F15, VF25, AU53

If so, I doubt PCGS graders could score 75

BowTieCoins · August 10, 2004 3:54PM

and I guarantee this final round will really separate the men from the boys.

&/or the women from the girls!!

Katrina
Bow Tie Coins

MrEureka · August 10, 2004 7:23PM

Glad to hear it's only 40 coins. 100 would have been brutal. Besides, it shouldn't take more than 40 difficult coins to shake out the true winner.

Steve27 · August 10, 2004 7:38PM

"I guarantee the list of coins will really surprise you..."

Unless there are patterns, tokens, and darkside material I won't be surprised

MrEureka · August 10, 2004 7:46PM

Unless there are patterns, tokens, and darkside material...

You know, I could live with that!

My prediction is that the coins will be on the expensive side. Very few moderns. Bragging rights wouldn't mean all that much if the only thing that separated #1 from #2 is the 69/70 line on an 2003-S dime.

dorkkarl · August 10, 2004 9:15PM

a really brutal test would be 40 2004 roosevelts in ms-68 or ms-69!

K S

braddick · August 10, 2004 9:17PM

<< a really brutal test would be 40 2004 roosevelts in ms-68 or ms-69! K S >>

That's not so much brutal as it is cruel.

Merc · August 10, 2004 10:32PM

I'll be interested in the list of coins for grading. Is there a time limit for the graders? 1 min per coin seems fair.

tradedollarnut · August 10, 2004 10:45PM

I think that if they've made it tough [ie: a PCGS grader at 75%], any collector will be extremely lucky to get to 50%. Look for some hanging heads - mine included!

tmot99 · August 10, 2004 11:21PM

Ok, maybe I don't understand something...

PCGS uses a consensus method for grading. In other words, they may not agree on a grade.

Professionals will be lucky to get 75% right.
Collectors will be lucky to get 50-60% right.

Who decides right from wrong? It is likely that PCGS graders didn't agree on the grade. Grading is not an absolute, but an opinion. How does thing really work?

homerunhall · August 11, 2004 2:02AM

A real brief explanation of consensus grading. We basically look for two graders to agree on the grade of a coin. So if two graders look at a coin and punch the same grade into the computer, we feel the grade is most likely "right." If the first two graders don't agree, a third grader looks at the coin and "breaks the tie." It's actually much, more involved than that, but that's the basic concept.

After the grade is determined and the coin holdered, it goes back into the grading room and another grader "verifies" the grade. If he disagrees with the grade, the process starts all over.

David

Bochiman · August 11, 2004 2:11AM

Good/crisp explanation David, but then, inquiring minds want to know about how often the "verifier" disagrees with the grade and the process starting all over again?

I would think that if it happened too often, the other graders would want to stuff the verifier in a slab and seal him up since their queue times would increase even more.

So, I would think that peer pressure, as well as work pressure, would prohibit all but the most stubborn/stalwart of fellows from "publicly" disagreeing too often on grades, even if he did disagree with them.....hence, many of the regrades that go up.

Just my $0.02 worth...

Ron

zenny · August 11, 2004 2:23AM

David

does this mean we're only going to have a half hour again?

thanks

z

clackamas · August 11, 2004 2:37AM

<< A real brief explanation of consensus grading. We basically look for two graders to agree on the grade of a coin. So if two graders look at a coin and punch the same grade into the computer, we feel the grade is most likely "right." If the first two graders don't agree, a third grader looks at the coin and "breaks the tie." It's actually much, more involved than that, but that's the basic concept.

After the grade is determined and the coin holdered, it goes back into the grading room and another grader "verifies" the grade. If he disagrees with the grade, the process starts all over.

David >>

Is this why my coins have been in verification for 12 days?

pontiacinf · August 11, 2004 2:41AM

I for one will be very happy to do my little happychickendance when Bruces shows em he's da man and the professionals eat dust

Russ · August 11, 2004 2:48AM

I just got a coin in from the winner of one of the rounds and the holder of the highest score to date. He overgraded it.

Russ, NCNE

jcping · August 11, 2004 2:55AM

> I just got a coin in from the winner of one of the rounds

How can you get the coin? David Hall told me that PCGS is not in coin selling business. The coins used in the World series will be sold after the series is concluded.

Russ · August 11, 2004 3:04AM

<< How can you get the coin? >>

It's not one of the contest coins. He's a coin dealer who slabbed it in a coin world slab and graded it himself.

Russ, NCNE

cohodk · August 11, 2004 4:11AM

<< I just got a coin in from the winner of one of the rounds and the holder of the highest score to date. He overgraded it.

Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, how do you know it is overgraded? Perhaps you just undergraded it.

kranky · August 11, 2004 4:12AM

<< I just got a coin in from the winner of one of the rounds and the holder of the highest score to date. He overgraded it.

Russ, NCNE >>

Well, that's your opinion, Mr. Non-Winner.

Russ · August 11, 2004 5:22AM

<< Russ, how do you know it is overgraded? Perhaps you just undergraded it. >>

It happens to be a coin type with which I have a lot of experience. I do tend to undergrade, but that's in coin series where I have limited experience. In the stuff that I collect for myself, I'm generally pretty accurate.

Russ, NCNE

eagle7 · August 11, 2004 5:30AM

Perhaps when there is extra money involved, the grading gets a little optimistic! Just human nature I guess! JMHO.

RGT · August 11, 2004 6:14AM

<< I just got a coin in from the winner of one of the rounds and the holder of the highest score to date. He overgraded it. Russ, NCNE >>

Russ, you should know better than to buy from Centsles.

Russ · August 11, 2004 7:10AM

<< Russ, you should know better than to buy from Centsles. >>

It was actually just a curiosity purchase. I wanted to see why he sticks coins that he might normally submit for grading in those "Certified Genuine" coin world holders.

Russ, NCNE

RGT · August 11, 2004 7:18AM

Now you know. Normally it's a toss-up for him to stick it in a Coin World slab or an NTC slab. He can't really claim ignorance for his overgrading any more.

MacCrimmon · August 11, 2004 12:41PM

OK. It was 100 coins in an hour........so, how much time do the men and the boys have to grade the 40 "tough" coins in the Finals?

A Very Tough World Series of Grading

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