A fresh tire kicker story.

roadrunner

I usually have a lot of patience but I guess 2 years of tire kicking finally got to me.

A "gentleman" approached me at last Sunday's coin show and wanted to see a PCGS MS62 gold dollar. I told him what the price was...$450. He responded with "why so high?" I then explained that to me the coin was extremely nice for the grade imo and worthy of the extra permium. The coin was MS64 on marks and luster but had some wiping lines. Next grade up is $725. I paid $420 for the coin. He sort of chuckled and said, "it's only in a 62 holder and you want extra money for it?" I stood ground and explained it was a nice coin. He asked what I would buy it back as, MS 62 or MS63? I said, "as an MS62+ and for $425." I couldn't have been any clearer. He left with a smile on his face like I was trying to steal the habit off mother Theresa. Actually, if he had bought the coin, and returned it a month later, I'd have given him a full refund. Arguing over returns is never a win-win situation.

The potential buyer decided to pass, like he has on all but one coin over the past 2 years. And frankly, the one coin I sold him (a PQ MS62 $20 Lib that I had bought raw) was at straight wholesale and a loss to me. He came back a while later and asked to look at the $1 gold coin again. He asked the price again and I said $450. He immediately became defensive and said "no, no....you quoted me $425." I corrected him as did my table partner who had been watching this whole transaction from the start. $425 was the buy back price not the sell price. He would not hear of that. The discussion got a bit more tense but not heated. A few more comments were exchanged back and forth on what was said,.....and then I took the coin away from him and said that the transaction was concluded. I was not going to play his little game. 2 years of tire kicking and trying to beat me down to a $5 profit (or a loss) had come to a head. This was it. Up to that point the show was fairly enjoyable.

I don't mind people looking but when my integrity is questioned over
$25 I generally lose it. Reminds me of the time my local dealer in 1975 told me that the BU 1837 RE bust half she sold me for $500 was in fact NOT the same coin. It was the last time I was ever in her store and for the next 10-15 years she probably never realized why I never stopped at her table again.

roadrunner

Coinosaurus

There is a certain breed of collector who is convinced that the sole objective of every dealer is to rip them off. They really do like coins (which is why they keep going to shows) but they are a pain the a** to deal with. Their behavior only serves to make dealers more and more reluctant to do business with them, which it turns make the collector even more suspicious until they get totally turned off and quit altogether. These will never have good dealer relationships, never get "first shot" at anything, and will never score good rips because if they see a good value they will convince themselves that the coin is counterfeit or has some other imagined flaw.

Roadie, you could have sold that coin to him at a great loss and he STILL would have been dissatisfied.

MICHAELDIXON

My standard line with those type of people is: "I'll eat the darned thing without salt or pepper before I'd sell it to you for that!" It normally gets a laugh out of them and they won't try to haggle anymore.

RYK

RR,

You are right for not wanting to deal with the "potential customer". Long ago I would have cut him off.

I wish coin buying were more like buying a shirt. You find out the price, and you either buy it, or not. Maybe later it will be on sale. Maybe later it will be gone.

I personally do not haggle on the price. If I like the coin at the quoted price, I buy it. If I do not, I pass. Haggling makes me uncomfortable, and I expect that dealers, though they are more proficient at haggling than I am, do not care for it either.

Thank you for sharing your experiences.

Goober

Wow roadrunner, that's amazing. Sad thing is, people like that are everywhere in the collectible world. Trying to twist words to catch you off guard and hope to win the situation. "Way to go!", I say.

100proof1957

Runner,
the guy was breaking your shoes,i woulda told him to FO and D

roadrunner

Coinosaurus,

I think you're right. Another person who witnessed the affair said just that. The gentleman probably had no intention of buying the coin but only to see if he could get it cheaper and cheaper than I was asking. You can only make a gold coin bleed so much.

Someone else suggested that one way to get around this is just to ask a higher price when said "pita" comes back again and again.
Now I wish I had. People come in all shapes and sizes so I expect a wide variety of responses too. But "nibbling" on a transaction is one of my pet peeves, yet seasoned negotiators live and die for this kind of stuff. My hat's off to them.

I also recently had another guy come back to me that had purchased a neat NGC MS64 flying eagle from me a few months back.
He came back twice and tried to chisel me down some all the while mentioning some minor defects on the coin. I didn't budge and still agreed to buy the coin. The "nibble" attempt did not work here.
I made a modest $50 on a $1,000 coin. It sort of rubbed me the wrong way when the guy came back at the next show and told me how he had gotten $1200 for the coin because it was just wonderful.
Wasn't this the same guy that was trying to chisel $25 off of me on the purchase? I mean, I was originally asking 5% above CDN "bid" for heaven's sake! Something about the Yankee trading mentality that I just don't like....and I'm a Connecticut Yankee too.

roadrunner

K6AZ

I just can't understand tightwads like that. My approach when I'm buying at a show is to tell the dealer I don't like to haggle, and for him to tell me what his best price is. I either accept it or hand the coin back to him.

mirabela

<< <i> wish coin buying were more like buying a shirt. You find out the price, and you either buy it, or not. Maybe later it will be on sale. Maybe later it will be gone. >>



I wish so too. I don't like to haggle much. I think part of the trouble, though, is that dealers -- at least dealers at a certain low-ish collector level, which is all I know much about, I'm talking about neighborhood coin shop type material here -- so expect to get haggled that they set prices a little high in expectation of coming down to make a sale. Maybe this, in turn, reinforces the 'chiseling' mentality in some buyers. For me, it makes for a lot of decisions on the 'not' side even when I do like the coin and when the dealer might really have in mind a price I'd be comfortable with. I wouldn't want to be constantly challenged as to the professional wage I earn, so I generally don't do it to dealers.

I had a good experience with a dealer in a nearby town a few weeks ago. I asked to see a coin I thought I might like. He told me his price, X. In hand & under a glass I liked the coin quite a lot, but just wasn't ready to spend quite what he wanted. The guy has got bills to pay, I was figuring, so rather than try to knock the price down I was getting ready to hand back the coin, pay him for the couple other things I'd chosen, thank him, and leave. I was pleasantly surprised when he remarked, "well, I'll probably sell it for (about 90% of X)." I happily bought the coin.

Looking back at it, I think on the one hand maybe I was being stupid over a small amount of money and, as it was a nice example of what I wanted, I shouldn't have been pinning my decision on the dollar amount quite so much. That's something I'm learning -- I've let a lot of nice coins go over a few bucks, and bought a few dogs because I thought they were a 'good deal.' On the other hand, I feel like this dealer let me in on how his prices really work, at least on what are for him the higher dollar items.

Sorry if I'm straying from the point of your post, the guy sounds annoying. His attempt to ensnare is rude & dishonest, and beyond ordinary bargaining anyway. Some of you guys must encounter a lot of that, and I'm not envious.

100proof1957

back in the day !
bought a 41P MS67 Walker for about 2100.00 on Teletrade,remember when they didnt have pix ? and the insert came in NN ? Everything was done via touch tone phone !
get the coin,yeah its a 67 but ugly like my first wife,call a dealer in LA and flip it for 2200.00 in 5 minutes
im sure he was happy to get it.
that tire kicker was busting your stones and deserved the heave ho !

Baley

I only read half your response before I had to chime in, mirabella, (edit: and i will now go back and read the rest ) but i have to say I agree that your "other side of the story" might cause the kind of (mis) behavior that RR experienced.

every coin is "PQ for the grade" according to some dealers, and you have to cut through that BS

not saying your gold dollar was not, RR, but you have to admit...

edit again: mirabella, the rest of your post was just as good..

and roadrunner: that clown didn't deserve to own that coin.

DHeath

RR,

One of the best responses I've heard would serve you well with this guy. "Sir, it's obvious you're looking for a good buy, so good bye".

100proof1957

ROFLMAO

Tonelover

I once had a (no longer active) forum member tell me I was $1 "over market" on an $60 item I offered on the BST board.

roadrunner

Baley, you have a good point about PQ. I like to think I have a good track record in identifying high end pieces and getting strong money for them. I sold a common NGC MS65 red indian cent for 30% over CDN bid at the show to one of the country's major retailer. I could tell he was thinking 66 shot but a sure 30% is better than a missed grading fee sometimes. And this was an ebay coin that sold for 10% under bid! It does happen.

My table partner suggested I resubmit the gold dollar to NGC first to try for a 63. At least that's what he would do if he owned it. If this were 15 years ago I'd do the same thing. But today, the services are so variable and fickle that their consistency is shot. I just don't want to contribute to their coffers and wait 3 months to hope for an upgrade.

I'm a tire kicker at heart too because I expect full value for my dollar when buying. I pass on coins far more often than the average buyer....for various reasons. But when the right coin is put in front of my face I can usually buy it. Finding that coin is the hard part.

roadrunner

jbsteven

with collectors or dealers like tht I will tell them what I paid for the coin so they understand my profit margin is small. I will usually only do this on coins that I make $50 or less on. Hard for someone to haggle on a coin when I quote $500 for the coin and I paid $450 for it. I also think newbie collectors think dealers buy $500 retail coins for $200-$300 which is why they want to haggle on prices.

rgwill

I always thought that most dealers mark the coins up just a little just so they can lower the price just a little. I am a collecter and love coins and i always ask if he would take any less. I don't ensult the man though. If he lowers the price any it makes me feel like i got a bargain. I hope i'm not doing wrong by asking.

EvilMCT

<< <i>I also think newbie collectors think dealers buy $500 retail coins for $200-$300 which is why they want to haggle on prices. >>



This goes back to the local dealer problem. Everyone knows of (or has heard of) the local dealer ripping off little old widows. It takes finding a couple of good dealers to understand that not all dealers are trying to rip you off.

Ken

kranky

Also, some people don't seem to collect coins, they collect "deals". They are only interested in what they can get cheap, and the negotiating/haggling is more enjoyable to them than the actual coin. You shouldn't feel as if your integrity was being questioned, it's just part of the game for people like that.

Do you know if the guy uses the same M.O. at the other dealers' tables? I bet he does.