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Hoyt Wilhem Question

i was looking at player stats at baseball-reference.com when i came across hoyt wilhelm stats. my question is, why is he in the hall of fame? he's was a little before my time so i don't know much about him, but going on statistical information only, he's nowhere near being a hall of famer. i'm not knocking the guy, he had some good years, i just curious as to why he was elected into the hall?
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    SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wilhelm was really the first pitcher to be known as a "reliever". He also held the record for most games in a career for a pitcher. Those are the two main things about him that I can think of off-hand.


    Steve
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    joestalinjoestalin Posts: 12,473 ✭✭
    143 wins...124 of them out of the bullpen!!! This guy was dominant and was able to just shut out opposing
    teams. You don't see that anymore today. ERA under 2.50 if I remember right. He got in in 1985 so I can assure
    you that he didn't slide in the hall like guys do today.

    I suggest you find someone who saw him pitch and they can tell you just how good this guy was!

    Kevin
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    I saw him pitch and he was my favorite player. His knuckleball was the most unhittable pitch of his day and he threw it with such grace and seeming lack of effort that he was able to pitch until he was 49. Tim Wakefield has a motion that is very similar to Wilhelm's.

    He was regularly in the top 5 in saves, when that was a more meaningful statistic. He retired as the pitcher appearing in the most games ever. He qualified for the ERA title twice and won the crown both times. And his career 2.52 ERA was 1.16 below the league average for his entire career.

    He twirled a no hitter against the Yankees in 1958 and hit a home run in his first at bat and never hit another. (One of my favorite trivia questions as a boy.) The most remarkable thing about his career was that he started in Pro Ball in 1942 a full 10 years before his big league debut.

    During that period he was invited by Uncle Sam to fight in WWII and won a Purple Heart at the Battle of the Bulge.

    Joestalin is correct in saying that he did not slide into the Hall as he was elected with 83.8% of the vote. This was a higher percentage than Walter Johnson, Warren Spahn, Al Simmons, Jackie Robinson and Pie Traynor. Although this says more about the vagaries of HOF voting than it says about Hoyt.

    On a personal note I met him several times and he was a perfect gentleman each time.

    On the downside, he gave the longest and most boring induction speech that I have ever heard at a Hall of Fame induction ceremony.



    Always looking for T59 Flags.
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    stevekstevek Posts: 27,727 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sometimes stats can be a little bit misleading about who belongs in the Hall or not. For example, Koufax only had 165 wins, yet nobody who knows baseball would dispute that he belongs in the Hall. That being said, there certainly are a number of players who shouldn't be in the Hall, for instance virtually everyone voted in by the "Veterans Committee" who were eligible but didn't get voted in during 20 years. If you can't get voted in after 20, count em' 20 years of eligibility, then you shouldn't get voted in.
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    mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Sometimes stats can be a little bit misleading about who belongs in the Hall or not. For example, Koufax only had 165 wins, yet nobody who knows baseball would dispute that he belongs in the Hall. That being said, there certainly are a number of players who shouldn't be in the Hall, for instance virtually everyone voted in by the "Veterans Committee" who were eligible but didn't get voted in during 20 years. If you can't get voted in after 20, count em' 20 years of eligibility, then you shouldn't get voted in. >>



    I would not agree with the above characterization. You can see here who was inducted by the Veteran's Committee. Sure, may of them are marginal. But I don't see anyone saying Pee Wee Reese, Chuck Klein, Hack Wilson, Chief Bender or Eddie Plank don't belong in the Hall.
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
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    GoldenageGoldenage Posts: 3,278 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stevek said:
    Sometimes stats can be a little bit misleading about who belongs in the Hall or not. For example, Koufax only had 165 wins, yet nobody who knows baseball would dispute that he belongs in the Hall. That being said, there certainly are a number of players who shouldn't be in the Hall, for instance virtually everyone voted in by the "Veterans Committee" who were eligible but didn't get voted in during 20 years. If you can't get voted in after 20, count em' 20 years of eligibility, then you shouldn't get voted in.

    Hey Stevek,

    Where are you ?

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    MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,897 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They need to take the voting for the HOF away from sports writers and hand it to the players. I doubt that anyone of Hoyt Wilhelm"s teammates would argue against his inclusion and the same would go for players he pitched against. When his knuckleball was average he was difficult to hit, when it was better than that he could be untouchable. When it was really on he made the best batters look foolish.

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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,778 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Besides all of the other stats already provided, I thought he was one of the pioneers that sort of perfected the knuckleball. Eddie Fisher and Wilbur Wood benefitted from what Wilhelm accomplished

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2022 5:14PM

    @BigDipper said:

    .......why is he in the hall of fame?

    Because Wilhelm AND Elroy Face pioneered the concept of relief pitchers......They both changed the game......Face more so than Wilhelm....Contemporary Players.........

    Hoyt Wilhelm

    Elroy Face

    And That's Why.....

    Vince Scully told me all about it....

    R.I.P. Vinney.....

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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 22,778 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Vin Scully was the best there ever was

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    HydrantHydrant Posts: 7,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2022 6:15PM

    @coinkat said:
    Vin Scully was the best there ever was

    Everyone says so.....But......So much of what made him the best, in my opinion, was his announcing partner, Jerry Doggett.....He was my favorite baseball announcer of all time!....They were a team....They played off each other..... Scully did the first three innings, Doggett did 4-6 and then Scully did 7-9.......Jerry Doggett was my favorite!...... What a team!......

    It Took Both Of Them....to be....The Best Ever!.....TEAMWORK!

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    dallasactuarydallasactuary Posts: 4,117 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hoyt Wilhelm was a beast. He pitched at a time when pitchers were just called "pitchers" and he pitched whenever his team needed him to pitch, for as long as they needed him to pitch. As previously noted, one year the Orioles were short a starting pitcher, brought Wilhelm in from the bullpen for the entire season, and he led the league in ERA. Try that with a modern reliever and their arm would fall off.

    Chief Bender does not belong in the HOF.

    Hack Wilson does not belong in the HOF.

    Chuck Klein does not belong in the HOF.

    Reese and Plank do belong in the HOF. I think maybe Plank got reamed because in his initial years of eligibility he was competing against Cy Young and Tris Speaker and some other all-time greats who had to wait while Ruth and the other all-time greats got in first. By the time it was his turn, he'd been forgotten.

    This is for you @thisistheshow - Jim Rice was actually a pretty good player.
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    DarinDarin Posts: 6,308 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 9, 2022 7:50PM

    @Goldenage said:

    @stevek said:
    Sometimes stats can be a little bit misleading about who belongs in the Hall or not. For example, Koufax only had 165 wins, yet nobody who knows baseball would dispute that he belongs in the Hall. That being said, there certainly are a number of players who shouldn't be in the Hall, for instance virtually everyone voted in by the "Veterans Committee" who were eligible but didn't get voted in during 20 years. If you can't get voted in after 20, count em' 20 years of eligibility, then you shouldn't get voted in.

    Hey Stevek,

    Where are you ?

    Well at least you checked the
    Year 2004 for him.

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    daltexdaltex Posts: 3,486 ✭✭✭✭✭

    A case could be made that Wilhelm is the best reliever of all time excepting, as always, Mariano Rivera. Of course tht depends on how you deal with hybrids like Eckersley and Smoltz and how you treat Wilhelm's brilliant 1959 season.

    One thing is for sure: we'll never again see a HoFer who made his major league debut at age 29.

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