What are your expectations with lost packages in the mail?
BigD5
Posts: 3,433 ✭
As a buyer.
As a seller.
Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking?
What are the boards thoughts?
As a seller.
Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking?
What are the boards thoughts?
0
Comments
As a buyer, I want my coin or my money back - NOW!!!
As a seller, I explain that the post office will sometimes put 1st class mail in with parcel post, which goes by truck and can take weeks to deliver because it sits at different post offices along the way for days at a time waiting for a full load.
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since 8/1/6
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<< <i>Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking? >>
I think those are the key thing for buyer and seller. I think in most cases it will take 30 day's before a claim can be filed- then you must fill out the form and send it to buyer to say he has not recieved it. This process could take 45+ days so I have given refunds before this time on inexpensive stuff but on expensive coins it would be foolish to give a refund before this form is returned and signed. mike
I've filed two claims with the post office. It took about 5 months to get the money on the first one. The second one was a coin sent to France and it's been 8 months. I'm not holding my breath on that one.
As a buyer I've never experienced a lost package. Would be curious to see how others handle it.
<< <i>The second one was a coin sent to France and it's been 8 months. I'm not holding my breath on that one. >>
I lost one on the way to Europe as well and it only took like 14 months for the post office to respond to my claim for $300( a counterperson at my local Post office just lost her Job for stealing a $300 package and I presume it was mine). mike
Understanding on both ends as well. As a buyer, I have to realize that if the item was shipped as stated with insurance etc., once it's shipped, the postal service is responsible for the item, in a sense. Think patience if the shipping was done properly.
As a seller, I have to realize that the buyer has shelled out monies (the amount doesn't matter) and expects to receive the subject item. If a claim has to be filed, communications and cooperation become imperative.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
<< <i>As a buyer. >>
I will <and have> report to the seller that I have not received the item<s>. after a reasonable amount of time based on the amount of shipping costs I paid. For standard mail I usually give it 14 days from shipment as reported to me from the seller. If it is an eBay transaction, I just write it off as I have been scammed <just kidding>. I really give it until the last friday before my eBay alotted 30 days expire. I went through just such a deal just 3 months ago. The seller never responded even after I went through the Paypal complaint. I telephoned before I filed that complaint and was told "it already shipped" I ask for the tracking number and I heard him shuffle some papers around then say "I don't have it, call me tomorrow morning I am open until 12 Pacific". Next day was answering machine all day and still no email responses. I filed with Paypal and 2 days later the seller gave Paypal a tracking number shipped that same day! In three days I finally got my product, but I will never use that seller again since he couldn't spend 3 minutes answering his email.
<< <i>As a seller. >>
I answer emails as promptly as my schedule permits usually first thng in the morning or late in the evening after my regular work. If the item wasn't expensive or sent with DC. I immediately refund the buyer and apologize for his loss. I've had only one incident of this so far and when the buyer received it 3 months later, he repaid me for the item. I have had only one incident of a lost item that was sent by a major carrier other the USPS. Pretty much the same type of outcome, but not as long. Amazingly, the package showed up<was delivered> 6 hours after I filed for the default insurance included with the shippng cost. The item was "in transit" for 2 weeks departing from the same location!
<< <i>Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking? >>
Good polite factual communication is critical in keeping trust between both sides. Prompt responses show the other party you care about their time and do not wish to waste it. Attempts at Tracking should be performed by both parties whenever possible.
There, did I pass the test.
USMC Veteran 1981-1992
Cold War Veteran
It's truly funny, no make that truly sad, that people in this day and age are so wrapped up in their own little world that they refuse to try and teach someone else the correct or accepted way of doing things.
As a seller, I refund the money as soon as I receive the claim form from the buyer.
The PO instructs you, as a seller, to NOT give a refund until the claim goes through as they may find the package (the exact case for two of my lost packages over the years). Keep that in mind.
I have never received the claim form back from the other party after filing. I'm not sure what you mean by your second point.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
I've NEVER had any item lost. Everything is sent Priority Mail, Insured (over $100), with Signature Confirmation that the buyer has no option but to pay for.
As a buyer:
I've had 4 items that claims had to be filed on.
1 coin I just never got.
2 coins were put in CHEAP mailers sent parcel post and as such the envelopes were ripped open by the post office machines they had to travel through. The brain dead sellers were only trying to maximise the money they made on shipping and handling charges they themselve charge.
1 was sent UPS and the package was literally destroyed (You could tell they tried to retape the package) but 46 of the 50 coins were already lost out of it.
Why all sellers don't use Priority Mail with Signature Confirmation is beyond me. The seller has to put zero funds into purchasing mailers as the Post Office provides them .. letters and boxes .... I don't care if it's a $20 coin. The buyer will pay, as they aren't given an option, $6.00 S&H. Actual cost: Priority Mail $3.85, Signature Confirmation $1.80, total $5.65 on this example. If the item is from $100 - $1,000 you just make you S&H $8 - $15 to cover the insurance, which the buyer pays for as he is not given the option. Again sent Priority Mail Insuered. I still like to also use Signature Confirmation as I can track in on the internet. If over $1,000 again the buyer is not given an option and the item is sent Registered Mail Insured with Return Receipt and charged $15 - $20. If a potential bidder thinks these charges are too excessive I don't want him bidding on my item anyway.
As a buyer:
I want the coin. I don't want to file for lost items. Sellers who have had one or more items lost, damaged or had their packaging ripped open should probably rethink how they send their items. It's easy to just lay blame on a postal employee instead of your inept, cheap mailing practices.
<< <i>I don't care if it's a $20 coin. The buyer will pay, as they aren't given an option, $6.00 S&H. >>
The problem is this: when a buyer sees your $20 coin with a shipping cost of over 25% of the purchase price, they are going to buy the coin from someone with more reasonable shipping options. In the event that you are the only one selling that item, they will bid $6 less than they would have. Most buyers are not stupid, and figure the cost of shipping into their bid.
K6, I'm interested in what you just said. Could you cite the specific FTC regulation? Thanks.
Lots of reading there, but there is one thing that trumps the FTC guidelines, and that is PayPal. If a lost item is paid for with PayPal, and you don't have proof of delivery within 30 days, the buyer can do a reversal which is automatic if you don't have proof. Plus they'll tack on a fee of $10. No smart buyer would give up this protection on the promise of the seller to refund.
Q: What are our responsibilities if we charge to insure delivery?
A: Instead of directing customers to make claims against the common carriers who may be responsible for losing merchandise, most merchants reship for the sake of customer satisfaction. To pay for these reshipment policies, some merchants ask customers to buy "insurance" or provide it as an option. By offering insurance, the merchant implicitly represents that it will honor any claim of nondelivery by providing prompt reshipment or, if reshipment is impossible, a prompt refund. It would be improper to collect fees from customers for reshipment insurance and not respond promptly and appropriately to their bona fide claims of loss.
FTC
<< <i>Why all sellers don't use Priority Mail with Signature Confirmation is beyond me. The seller has to put zero funds into purchasing mailers as the Post Office provides them .. letters and boxes .... I don't care if it's a $20 coin. The buyer will pay, as they aren't given an option, $6.00 S&H. Actual cost: Priority Mail $3.85, Signature Confirmation $1.80, total $5.65 on this example. If the item is from $100 - $1,000 you just make you S&H $8 - $15 to cover the insurance, which the buyer pays for as he is not given the option. Again sent Priority Mail Insuered. I still like to also use Signature Confirmation as I can track in on the internet. If over $1,000 again the buyer is not given an option and the item is sent Registered Mail Insured with Return Receipt and charged $15 - $20. If a potential bidder thinks these charges are too excessive I don't want him bidding on my item anyway. >>
As a seller, I don't do it because it is a waste of money and a high shipping charge like that scares off bidders.
I use three different sizes of boxes, which cost me 32-48¢ each. Lets say I have a slabbed Morgan that sells for $120. I ship it in a box, with insurance and electronic delivery confirmation for a net cost to me of roughly $5.40, I charge $6. Now if I used a priority box with signature confirmation, the postage alone would be $8.60, and I would need to charge $9.
<< <i> it is unreasonable to expect your buyer to wait months for a refund. >>
Unless the buyer requests and wants to pay for registered mail shipping (which will essentially guarantee a delivery), the wait is the wait. That part of the deal is out of a sellers hands, and they are at the mercy of the PO's rules for claims.
The FTC can say whatever they want, but on a one on one basis, some understanding should be expected on both ends, no?
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
Within that period of time the St G had miraculously showed up in a Baltimore coin shop ( was cracked out though). The guy was apparently arrested and was related to the fed ex driver who delivered the package to California.
Alls well that ends well.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
<< <i>
<< <i> it is unreasonable to expect your buyer to wait months for a refund. >>
Unless the buyer requests and wants to pay for registered mail shipping (which will essentially guarantee a delivery), the wait is the wait. That part of the deal is out of a sellers hands, and they are at the mercy of the PO's rules for claims.
The FTC can say whatever they want, but on a one on one basis, some understanding should be expected on both ends, no? >>
So that is what this is all about? You want to make a buyer wait for months? Well, if they paid by PayPal you not only will be out the amount, but an additional $10. You don't care about the law? When you transact business across state lines, you are subject to the FTC's regulations. You are seriously mistaken about what your responsibility is as a seller, and if you are just going to ignore the FTC regulations, I don't know what to tell you.
<<Q: What are our responsibilities if we charge to insure delivery?>>
A: Instead of directing customers to make claims against the common carriers who may be responsible for losing merchandise (this is what happens if you insure the item through the post office), most merchants reship for the sake of customer satisfaction. To pay for these reshipment policies, some merchants ask customers to buy "insurance" or provide it as an option. By offering insurance, the merchant implicitly represents that it will honor any claim of nondelivery by providing prompt reshipment or, if reshipment is impossible, a prompt refund. It would be improper to collect fees from customers for reshipment insurance and not respond promptly and appropriately to their bona fide claims of loss.>>
This sounds like it relates to merchants who self-insure, not those who *purchase* insurance from a common carrier. Additionally, note the use of IMPROPER instead of ILLEGAL. As for not caring about the law, I think most people are pragmatists. I've never me a person who has not once in their life sped down the highway. It's against the law, but what are the odds you'll be caught? Or let me rephrase: divide the number of tickets you've received for speeding by the number of times you have sped, then multiply that by 100. What percentage is it? .1% or less? Lots of people nominally break the law. When people like Martin Luther King do it, they're heros. When a merchant does it, what does that make him? I suppose it all depends on the law.
As a seller I would not make any refund until I was reasonably certain that all requirements necessary for me to obtain said relief were met. Granted a $3 coin would be a different story.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So that is what this is all about? You want to make a buyer wait for months? >>
Depends on the item. Bajjerfan makes a good example of a situation where buyer and seller would have to wait.
<< <i>You don't care about the law?
<< <i>
PLEASE!
I couldn't imagine the FTC being a factor in an ebay sale of say, $200. I may be naive in thinking that two people (buyer and seller) could get through a return without involving the FTC.
I have no specific example, just heard of a return story at the show on Sunday, and wanted to gather different opinons.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
<< <i>
Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking?
What are the boards thoughts? >>
Well, to start with, knock on wood ! I have never lost an item either coming or going. However, the above is your best resource. Good communication? Prompt responses? Attempts at tracking? all three should be done by both the Buyer and Seller. My closest experience was a resent sale a couple of weeks ago. I shipped out four coins and didn't hear from anyone for over a week. Then one Buyer wrote looking for his coin. Hmm. I used the three responses above. We went back and forth for a couple of days and I realized the other coin buyers were slow in responding. One by one, each ended up giving positive feedback. However, that one coin was still missing. My only thought was that Hmm, that was the week of the DCN in Boston ?? I would bet a dollar to a donut that the friggin mail got screwed up because of security issues that week. Anyway to make a long story short, within a couple more days, sure enough the coin should up at the Buyers house. Positive feedback was received and everyone went away happy. Probably the most important fact was that I keep in constant contact with the Buyer every couple of days. I was " " This close to just sending him a refund.
Now, the item was not insured!! Should I have refunded his money anyway?? The Buyer made the decision not to pay the crummy $1.20 for insurance.
I sell lots of items, including Beatle records and Collectable Binoculars. In both of those cases, I ship everything Priority Mail and no one complains. But, these coin people are all over the place on paying for shipping and handling.
My Ebay Sales
The bottom line is that as a seller, you are responsible to see to it that the buyer receives the item in a timely manner as advertised. When you ship an item through the USPS (or any other carrier) you are contracting with the carrier to deliver the item, this has nothing to do with the buyer whether or not they purchased insurance. If the buyer does not receive the item, and you can not prove delivery, you the seller is on the hook, whether it is a $5 or $5000 coin. The only obligations of the buyer are to complete their side of the deal, which is to pay for the order with good funds, and to complete and sign a claim form if the item is lost. Once that is done, all else is the responsibility of the seller.
In regards to how does the seller protect himself, always make sure you use some form of tracking or delivery confirmation. That way, the buyer would be committing mail fraud if he claimed that he did not receive the item and filled out the insurance claim. If he does not fill out his section of the claim and return it to you, you are not under the obligation to refund his money.
<< <i>If he does not fill out his section of the claim and return it to you, you are not under the obligation to refund his money. >>
But what can you do if PayPal takes or tries to take the money out of your account BEFORE the buyer fulfills his duties in the deal? When PayPal gives him his money back there is no incentive for him to fill out the paperwork to help you recover yours.
<< <i>Legally, it is the responsibility of the seller to get the item to the buyer, whether or not the buyer pays for insurance. It is beyond me why some sellers will ship coins worth hundreds of dollars uninsured. >>
Correct. It is not the responsibility of the buyer to make sure that what he pays for is sent properly or not. That's the responsibility of the seller and he should disclose that in his shipping info.
If someone really has a problem with paying a couple of bucks for shipping, they should find something else to do.
Tom
Coin's for sale/trade.
Tom Pilitowski
US Rare Coin Investments
800-624-1870
As a seller I've NEVER had to file a claim.
As a buyer numerous times.
There are cheaper ways to send coins but the question is how many of your items sent cheaper have you hads to file claims on?
Priority Mail gets sorted by hand. The other cheap mailers and boxes get to ride on the conveyer belt to possibly fall off, get caught in the machinery etc. So you can file a claim.
Signature Confirmation - The person you send the item to has to show ID and sign for the item.
Delivery Confirmation - In my opinion NOTHING should be sent with this. It does nothing but confirm your item was delivered. It does NOT quaruntee where your item was delivered. Again cheap sellers use this as a way to say the seller received the item. It couldn't be farther from the truth.
Insurance - Up to around $1,000 Priority Insured is fine. Over $1,000 it's cheaper to send Registered Insured Mail
Sure there are cheaper ways to send items but I want my buyers to get the item that was sold to him not to file a claim.
I guess the old addage is true. If you want to send your item cheaply you get what you pay for. Or NOT ...
<< <i>I know we have a lot of forum attorneys, so hopefully at some point one will chime in here. >>
I don't need an attorney's opinion.
We ran off track from the expected "wait" for filing a claim to simply not using insurance (which I agree is very dumb on both parties parts).
I would think two reasonable people could follow the claims procedure on a lost package (USPS) without having to get the FTC, or an attorney involved. I guess that was my point.
As a buyer, I wouldn't expect a refund for an item until the claims procedure was completed, which the USPS recommends, in case they end up finding the package. It happens.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff