Majorbigtime, THIS is what getting screwed "BY" eBay really looks like, IMHO (and how to
magikbilly
Posts: 6,780 ✭
Hi there,
A while ago I purchased from a dealer of coins and Proofs in the Southern Mid-West a slabbed Proof Walker. I found it on their website, called to confirm and set up a lay-away and started making payments faster than necessary. Payments were accepted and I received purchase confirmations and such by email. During the time I was making payments I had made a direct purchase or two from them as well. When I called to pay off my balance after making I believe two confirmed payments I was informed the coin was sold to someone else!
How did this happen? I was told the coin was sold on eBay about a week or so before I bought it and was mistakenly left up on the website (I think this is against eBay rules - to list something for sale in two places). At first I was like "yeah, right!" (said only to myself) - but then I looked for the coin on eBay - sure enough it was there in the completed auctions as I was told. I was offered my money back or a similar coin at a slightly reduced price (which turned out to be a problem coin IMHO which I promptly returned for a full refund without ANY problem). What did I do with all this? Believe me, I wanted THAT coin. I said "the hell with it". I just let it go. It was an honest, albeit avoidable, mistake made by an HONEST dealer. I felt certain that, as I had made payments that were accepted and had received purchase confirmations and such the coin was clearly mine. However, were I the winner of the eBay auction I am quite sure I would have felt equally strongly I should get the coin as it was won before the online sale, although no payments had been made by the other party for whatever that's worth. Anyway, I KNEW this was an honest mistake - and I still am not sure what the proper solution would have been. In the end, perhaps the coin went to the person who could leave negative feedback, and well, that wasn't me. This is the first time I have even mentioned it to anyone. My point is this - at some point you have to let this stuff GO. Although these circumstances differ greatly, and I think we can agree you did not use your best judgment, you just have to MOVE ON. You could have paid a lot more to learn what you have from this, and I doubt you get into this kind of situation again. Consider the experience a lesson learned - next?!
Best to you,
Billy
PS - And yes, I would deal with them again if they had something I wanted. Why deny myself some coin I want because of what happened?
A while ago I purchased from a dealer of coins and Proofs in the Southern Mid-West a slabbed Proof Walker. I found it on their website, called to confirm and set up a lay-away and started making payments faster than necessary. Payments were accepted and I received purchase confirmations and such by email. During the time I was making payments I had made a direct purchase or two from them as well. When I called to pay off my balance after making I believe two confirmed payments I was informed the coin was sold to someone else!
How did this happen? I was told the coin was sold on eBay about a week or so before I bought it and was mistakenly left up on the website (I think this is against eBay rules - to list something for sale in two places). At first I was like "yeah, right!" (said only to myself) - but then I looked for the coin on eBay - sure enough it was there in the completed auctions as I was told. I was offered my money back or a similar coin at a slightly reduced price (which turned out to be a problem coin IMHO which I promptly returned for a full refund without ANY problem). What did I do with all this? Believe me, I wanted THAT coin. I said "the hell with it". I just let it go. It was an honest, albeit avoidable, mistake made by an HONEST dealer. I felt certain that, as I had made payments that were accepted and had received purchase confirmations and such the coin was clearly mine. However, were I the winner of the eBay auction I am quite sure I would have felt equally strongly I should get the coin as it was won before the online sale, although no payments had been made by the other party for whatever that's worth. Anyway, I KNEW this was an honest mistake - and I still am not sure what the proper solution would have been. In the end, perhaps the coin went to the person who could leave negative feedback, and well, that wasn't me. This is the first time I have even mentioned it to anyone. My point is this - at some point you have to let this stuff GO. Although these circumstances differ greatly, and I think we can agree you did not use your best judgment, you just have to MOVE ON. You could have paid a lot more to learn what you have from this, and I doubt you get into this kind of situation again. Consider the experience a lesson learned - next?!Best to you,
Billy
PS - And yes, I would deal with them again if they had something I wanted. Why deny myself some coin I want because of what happened?
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Comments
As far as Majorwhatever, he did not get screwed by either ebay or the dealer. He thought he would be a Majorbigshot, and screwed up big time. He is, as others have stated, an a$$hole!....Ken
Thanks for the very nice words
Thanks again!
Best,
Billy
Saturday August 07, 2004 6:50 AM (NEW!)
FROM "mirabela":
<< Well, let's hope. I've already got the worst of what's coming to me -- as you correctly point out, I left myself open to getting screwed and I got screwed. It was coming to me, and I got it. Hopefully the supposed protections those stupid fees buy us will come to something. With luck, I'll get that too. >>
Bottom line is, the coin is no good and poe58 knows it, and that's why he doesn't want it back. He can sign up any number of brand new "members" to go to bat for him (will they all spell as poorly as he does?) but a scam is a scam is a scam, and now at least a few hundred more people know about this one. 'Nuff said. I spent the day canoeing and not thinking about this, and I felt frankly better that way. Goodnight. I'll begin legal proceedings in the morning.
*************
MY RESOPNSE:
Phew, all I can do is to quote our ex-Pres Clinton and say "I feel your pain!".
I guess I'm not the only Ebay victim that gets slammed on these boards. I believe you were screwed, as I was. Both auctions had telltale signs that the sellers knew they were setting a trap. Yeah, we foolishly bit the bait. That doesn't mean we have to swallow the hook, line and sinker and accept that we are up the creek without a paddle.
I was a better target, as folks got into a lawyer-bashing frenzy. I fought fire with fire and told a few of then to engage in egg sucking, which only added fuel to the fire and created an inferno with many flames! I've been called an A-hole several times. There's surely a bunch of 'em here IMO. Heck, if A-holes could fly, this place would be an airport!! That's not to say that there are not many good folks who offer constructive comments and guidance, there are.
A legion of folks will explain how you, the screwee, screwed-up. They point out all the warning signs in the auction, and say you should have known better. Lots of armchair quarterbacks here, to be sure. They have many valid points, but it's after the fact and of little help to you now.
Many say just suck it up, take a screwing and get on with life. That's Ok if you're so inclined, but I'm not. In essence, the bad guy wins.
Many defend the sellers, carrying caveat emptor to an illogical extreme. In my case, many said the words "as is" completely adsolved the seller. Wrong. Such a term doesn't mean that the seller is free to recourse for misrepresentations. To the contrary, a buyer is even more likely to rely on representations of grade, quality and condition under such circumstances. Sorry, but I digress.
You may have decided to post to get helpful hints or moral support (I really just wanted to stir it up, and provide some free entertainment), and end up on the defensive and under attack. It seems as if there's a pack of wolves out there, awaiting fresh meat! Boy oh boy, you sure can learn afout folks by reading their responses. No surprise that many of the same folks bashed both of us. To quote my infamous retort, "who cares"?
I encourage you to exert your legal rights, and pursue this with vigor. It's not the dollars involved, it's a matter of principle. Don't think of it as a miserable experience to get behind you, look upon it as an opportunity to exert your rights!
Don't expect any recourse from Ebay or PayPal (one in the same), there so-called buyer protections are not worth diddly squat (been there, done that). I wouldn't even waist any time trying, you will simply be frustrated with a bunch of complex forms and canned responses, If you litigate, recognize that you may not prevail, but at least you will have your day in court. The offender will have to go through the burdens and costs of defending the claim, a bit of punishment in and of itself. The seller made you miserable, and it's payback time. You may not get justice, but you'll get even!
There are several ways to proceed short of litigation. File a mail fraud claim with the USPS for starters. Notify the local police in the seller's backyard. File claims with the federal agencies, including the FBI and the FTC consumer fraud division. Be creative, and leave no stone unturned. Litigation probably is the best means of seeking redress, but it's time-consuming and costly if you don't have a legal background. You may be able to utilize the local court's small claims procedure if it permits service out of state under a long arm statute.
You can be a woos, suck it up and go on with life. Undoubtedly this is the best route for most. But if you have the Moxie to assert your rights, win or lose, go for it!!
you wrote:
"Many defend the sellers, carrying caveat emptor to an illogical extreme. In my case, many said the words "as is" completely adsolved the seller. Wrong. Such a term doesn't mean that the seller is free to recourse for misrepresentations. To the contrary, a buyer is even more likely to rely on representations of grade, quality and condition under such circumstances."
If you think I am defending the seller you are simply wrong, and I am offended. I never said "as is" absolved the seller - rather - it is a sign you failed to read and heed. I was trying, in my old fashioned way, to be as sympathetic as possible to a person in your uh - situation. To help you through this life-altering event by relating a genuine coin "tradgedy" (thats when BOTH parties are sane). And with a hell of a lot less words too. Anyway, as I noted earlier, "AS IS" is in Websters, albeit informal, and the web is full of definitions as well if you did not know what it meant (which I find patently unbelievable). Children know what it means.
I've nothing further to add to this thread - I should have just left it as is. You know, thats where....awww, skip it.
Adieu,
Billy (humming Radioheads "Just" "...you do it to yourself, and thats why it really hurts...")
<< <i>Hi again,
you wrote:
"Many defend the sellers, carrying caveat emptor to an illogical extreme. In my case, many said the words "as is" completely adsolved the seller. Wrong. Such a term doesn't mean that the seller is free to recourse for misrepresentations. To the contrary, a buyer is even more likely to rely on representations of grade, quality and condition under such circumstances."
If you think I am defending the seller you are simply wrong, and I am offended. I never said "as is" absolved the seller - rather - it is a sign you failed to read and heed. I was trying, in my old fashioned way, to be as sympathetic as possible to a person in your uh - situation. To help you through this life-altering event by relating a genuine coin "tradgedy" (thats when BOTH parties are sane). And with a hell of a lot less words too. Anyway, as I noted earlier, "AS IS" is in Websters, albeit informal, and the web is full of definitions as well if you did not know what it meant (which I find patently unbelievable). Children know what it means. >>
I just got around to reading your post, and understand what you are conveying. Sorry, but I tend to think in legalistic terms (it's my profession), and know for a fact that an "as-is" term does not absolve a seller one iota in the State of Texas unless the buyer had examined the goods prior to the sale. The law is very explicit on this.
Sure, I screwed-up (a "mia culpa"). But that doesn't mean that I should be screwed, IMO.
I probably will have to sue. I may even lose, but I'll take my chances.
I beleive we simply should not permit buyers, whether they made a mistake or not, to be victimized. Nor should we permit sellers to "stick it" to anyone.
That is the essence of my dispute. I made a mistake, and the seller is trying to stick it to me by refusing to give me a refund. It's as simple as that. You may side with the seller; that's your perogative.
Most of you would yield, eat the loss, and write it off to experience (thus letting the seller "win"). I chose to take a different path, and will seek redress in the legal system. If you believe there is something unsavory about that, I beg to differ.
you got slammed because you're not very smart in your purchases. and your reasoning about returning an as is coin further demonstatres your lack if understanding and no legal threats were promised. learn how to bid and you'll get all the sympathy you deserve, plus you gave SELLER POSITIVE FEEDBACK. nothing more needs to be said.