RYK I know you collect branch mint gold, how do you find NGC vs PCGS in this area? I also prefer PCGS, grew up in So. Ca. with PCGS as a collector so I have a biased for them, The coins that I buy from Doug Winter and a few other dealers that are in NGC holders usually cross, I have about a 90% cross rate, that is because I dont buy a coin or the dealers that I deal with will not sell me a coin that they think will not cross. If I limited myself to just PCGS I wouldnt buy very many coins, just because so many are just in NGC holders for all the reasons that have been said here. Reece
Great thread and way too much back and forth comments - I generally agree with Ira too - nice post indeed.
I don't disagree with that. But remember that before the dealer puts the coin out for sale in an NGC holder, he tries it for crossover at least once, maybe many times. He might also wholesale it to someone who tries it a few more times. The end result is that the nicest coins cross and the least nice end up for sale. You see all the dogs in the white holder and the nice coins in the clear holder. This gives the illusion that NGC 'grades it wrong 80% of the time'. They don't - nowhere near that % of the time.
cool take - but what you're saying really cements the fact PCGS does rule indeed. They are the service of choice, and in the end of the day - PCGS graded coins will sell for better money. To go and have all coins slabbed @ NGC because of the reasons above is a shame as I know at least 3 serious collectors who would NOT bid at the recent Lawrence sale as all the coins were NGC graded. recently at that, and oh I may add not really graded A-OK in my book. Off by 1 point at least JMHO, and I won't get into it any further. Suffice to say buy the coin ofc ourse and too bad NGC is showing up in droves at all the shows - usually the creme has been long gone. When you think of the WHOLE picture for the average collector not a great picture at the end of the day.
this is the only solution to this "problem", which shouldnt be one. neither is better than the other in the overall mixing bowl of all series. all that is needed is a company to be formed to register sets with ngc and/or pcgs coins for the consumer (collector/dealer) and back it with serious promotion to compile,keep up with and have a web-site for the "stuff of the stuff", and "who has it". even,add more + or - points for particular reasons,attributes,etc...no-one has ever even mentioned anything of the sort that i recall.. it'd sure work.
<< <i>So, dorkkarl, let me get this straight, the only pure and true registry system that would satisfy you requires an unkown third party grader to arrive on the scene, review all the coins to be registered, and assign its own grades, and do it all for free, and do it in such a way as to command respect for the assigned grades. Yea, that has a chance in hell of becoming a reality. Good one. Are you a politican? >>
you totally miss the point. personally, i really couldn't care less if pcgs has a registry or how they do it, but if they're stick w/ how they do it, the HONEST thing to do would be to call it what it is, which is a BIASED appraisal of condition census coins. that's the point. instead, when you read about a pcgs registry collection , it's flippantly called the "finest known set", but what it really is is the "highest total of grading points allowed by pcgs according to our standards only & w/out input from others who are just as competent grading as we are".
bottom line for me is, i'd be bored to tears in being cajoled into abiding by some small minority's standards of "who's allowed to play", i don't care whose name is on the plastic.
RYK...... I was told by a couple of very reputable dealers, that NGC graded gold pretty much in line with PCGS standards, and one of the dealers that said this to me is probably one of the most respected dealers around when it comes to knowing his gold coins.
RYK, you know what I meant the high end coins will sell regardless etc. I am reffering to the basics to better, scarce to very scarce series and so on etc. etc.
Comments
I don't disagree with that. But remember that before the dealer puts the coin out for sale in an NGC holder, he tries it for crossover at least once, maybe many times. He might also wholesale it to someone who tries it a few more times. The end result is that the nicest coins cross and the least nice end up for sale. You see all the dogs in the white holder and the nice coins in the clear holder. This gives the illusion that NGC 'grades it wrong 80% of the time'. They don't - nowhere near that % of the time.
cool take - but what you're saying really cements the fact PCGS does rule indeed. They are the service of choice, and in the end of the day - PCGS graded coins will sell for better money. To go and have all coins slabbed @ NGC because of the reasons above is a shame as I know at least 3 serious collectors who would NOT bid at the recent Lawrence sale as all the coins were NGC graded. recently at that, and oh I may add not really graded A-OK in my book. Off by 1 point at least JMHO, and I won't get into it any further. Suffice to say buy the coin ofc ourse and too bad NGC is showing up in droves at all the shows - usually the creme has been long gone. When you think of the WHOLE picture for the average collector not a great picture at the end of the day.
marc
it'd sure work.
You know 4 now Marc.
The solution is quite simple.
If you want your NGC coins in the PCGS Registry, just cross them at any grade.
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since 8/1/6
<< <i>So, dorkkarl, let me get this straight, the only pure and true registry system that would satisfy you requires an unkown third party grader to arrive on the scene, review all the coins to be registered, and assign its own grades, and do it all for free, and do it in such a way as to command respect for the assigned grades. Yea, that has a chance in hell of becoming a reality. Good one. Are you a politican? >>
you totally miss the point. personally, i really couldn't care less if pcgs has a registry or how they do it, but if they're stick w/ how they do it, the HONEST thing to do would be to call it what it is, which is a BIASED appraisal of condition census coins. that's the point. instead, when you read about a pcgs registry collection , it's flippantly called the "finest known set", but what it really is is the "highest total of grading points allowed by pcgs according to our standards only & w/out input from others who are just as competent grading as we are".
bottom line for me is, i'd be bored to tears in being cajoled into abiding by some small minority's standards of "who's allowed to play", i don't care whose name is on the plastic.
K S
Their loss. There were some nice coins to be had.
Marc