What do you think of these three Proof Jefferson dates??

keets

I wanted to look at three dates in the Proof Jefferson Nickel series and see what everyone thinks about them, or at least anyone who cares. After all, they're just Jefferson Nickels, right?? The dates are 1942 Type 2, 1958 and 1971 No "S" all in specific grades, so I'll list them below with some current PCGS pop numbers and other relative mintage figures. Keep in mind that the pop numbers are what PCGS has graded and not necessarily what truly exists.

1942 Type 2-----total mintage of 27,600.
This is a strange date for me because even though it has a higher mintage than all other pre-1950 Proof Jeffersons it routinely sells for more in same grade PCGS holders. I assume that's due to demand as a Type coin. To date, PCGS shows one coin @ PR64CAM, three coins @ PR66CAM, a single coin graded PR66DCAM and 3,978 graded brilliant.

I've only seen one of these listed for sale and it went without bids priced between $1K-$2k. Given the actual pop numbers of any denomination in CAM/DCAM prior to 1950 I find that interesting. Also, by looking at old pop reports it seems the coins were all holdered in the last 3-4 years. I tend to think that the low number is the result of crackouts which makes it even lower!!! Considering the mintage of the issue, the elapsed time since issue and the state of die prep prior to 1950, I'm left wondering why this coin gets no respect!! A PR66 will sell at around $175.

1958-----total mintage of 875,652.
Coins from 1955-1959 are very scarce with well frosted devices and down right rare in true DCAM grades. The PCGS pop report show one coin @ PR67DCAM, three coins @ PR68DCAM and 129 coins in all CAM grades.

The 1958 seems the only one of the three which collectors are willing to recognize for it's rarity. Given that so many coins were minted, the lack of sufficient frost overall to garner the CAM/DCAM designation must be a truth that collectors have accepted. I've seen two 68 DCAM's for sale---one currently---and the pricetag has been from $5K and up while a comparable CAM will sell for around $200.

1971 No "S"-----total estimated mintage of 1,655.
I think it's interesting to know that the U.S. Mint was able to determine a precise number of coins. Evidentally they were struck from a die which hadn't had the MM added and were probably packaged already so they were just released. The PCGS pop report lists 28 coins as brilliant, 56 as CAM and 16 as DCAM. For discussion, 26 of the coins are listed at PR68CAM.

Here's a funny coin. It's low mintage can be held as an example of what a properly prepared die from the "pre-chrome era" will yield and since it comes in Proof Sets it's a good bet that it'll be found if it exists. In a still intact set I've seen them sell for around $600 and in 68CAM they seem to hang between $800-$1200.

I wanted to look at dates/grades as follows:
1942 Type 2-----PR66CAM.
1958-----PR68DCAM.
1971 No "S"-----PR68CAM.

Whenever any of these dates/grades show up for auction, which isn't very often, I'm amazed at where they sell based mainly on what I see as their true rarities even though that may be based on grade. I always assume that collectors submit the nicest coins, so that tells me that there aren't large numbers of these coins waiting to be found which will upset things much over time, especially when there seems enough incentive to holder a nice coin. For these three issues in the listed grades, the pop numbers don't change very much or very quickly.

What do you think of the current pop numbers?? Would you expect any of them to change much over time?? Do you think someone has a hoard of 1958 or 1971 Proof Sets that have never been searched just packed to the gills with frosted coins? With regard to the 1971, what do some of the other denomination collectors from that era feel is a realistic representation of coins from a properly prepared die?? I know 1971 wasn't a good year for any high grade DCAM's. What about pre-1950 frosted coins?? I used to be of the opinion that they existed and we just had to wait for them to show up. Lately that's changed and I'm tending to belive that the prep methods were different and coins will prove to be truly rare with frosted surfaces.

Al H.

NIckelCollector

All three coins are very hard to find in high grades.

I have examined and returned two of the 42 Type 2 PF66CAMs. On one I could not see the the cameo the second had very cloudy fields. A very difficult coin and perhaps more difficult then the pop #s suggest.

I'm still looking for a1958 PFDCAM.

The 71No S in PF68CAM is certainly the easiest of the three to find. My guess is more will be made in Cameo. The DCAMs are very hard as you noted. My PF69DCAM is a lower end DCAM on the reverse and strong obverse. From the 71S I have examined this would appear to be the norm. A while back a bunch from ICG were auctioned in Teletrade in Cam and DCAM. Some of these coins looked like they could get a PCGS cameo designation.

I do not expect the 58 DCAM or 40s CAM numbers to change that drastically. Maybe a few more in each in top grades.

I'm still looking for the first two coins so if anyone wants to sell PM me.

Frank

CarlWohlforth

Great thread!

I agree few proof Jeffs minted before 1950 will be found with cameo contrast. Of those that have some frosting on the devices I'd say the type 2 1942-P is the most common if you can call a handful of coins common. Perhaps it was the silver in the coin?

1940 Proof Jeffs sometimes have a touch of frosting. I think that would be the next pre-50 date to be found in cameo if any are.

DCAM Jeffs from the 50s are scarce. 1958 is known as a particularly tough date. I think some other 50s dates are just as tough or nearly as tough. 1950 itself has fewer in PR 68 even without cameo. '51, '52, '53, '56, '57 are other tough dates in 68 DCAM.

I think the NO-S proof Jeff is neat. It seems many of the Cameo certified examples have near DCAM obverses with weaker reverses.

CoinAddict

Here is a 1942 Type 2 in PR-66 CAM that is listed on NEN for $1750.

badger

I agree with Carl, The existing 1942 Cams look marginal. One issue is the registry. Cams only get one point extra. Their scarcity would warrant a higher bonus. When building a registry set, a higher (registry) value coin is less expensive than the Cams.

I own one of the three 1958 5c Dcams. It is very solid and looks almost 69. The coin was made relatively recently, but I don't expect extras to show up soon.

BNE

Hi, Keets! I own the '42-P in 66DCAM and the '42-P in 64CAM. The DCAM is my icon coin -- very attractive, although the cameo on the shoulder is a little less strong. I love it! The 64CAM is a true cameo and is also very, very pretty but marred by some carbon spotting. Nevertheless, I'm holding onto it because of the rarity of cameo for this issue. I also have a PCI-holdered 42-P (holdered as 65DCAM), but it has a little rim damage and haze. I didn't pay too much for it. I agree that these early Jefferson cameo issues are very rare and not truly appreciated. I also agree with Badger that it is idiocy to not give more than a two point bonus for a '38-'42 DCAM. For most of these years THERE ARE NONE -- doesn't this say smoething about their rarity? I know Frank raised this issue before, but it must have fallen on deaf ears.

I also own one of the '58 68DCAMs, which I bought from Rick Tomaska a couple of years ago. There used to be only two; I think Badger's may be the more recently made one and, having seen the image, it sure looks like a beautiful, exceptional coin. Very rare -- with the same pop as the '56 that Carl currently has on auction. ( ). Rick told me that believes that '58 was a tough year in cameo for Jeffersons, and that is what accounts for the rarity. These coins deserve premium prices.

I also own a '71-S in 68CAM. Bought it as a PCI 70DCAM and crossed it over. I would like to get one of these in DCAM -- a very, very rare coin.

It may take a total redesign, and more interest in the series to keep the prices moving up, but I think it safe to predict that a hoard of pre-'60 Jefferson DCAMS is not going to show up soon.

segoja

As for the 40's Jeff's in Cam, I own a 40 in 64Cam. I thought the coin had a shot at 66 or 67 and knew it would cameo. I need to send it in for regrade, as PF65Cam would be a nice grade.

If anyone has some series interest in purchasing the coin, send me a PM.

Happy to ship out to a board member.

Keets coins that are ID'd are very very tough. I've yet to find a 58 in CAM in a set. Just got one back I thought had a shot at cameo. No cameo but PF68, so I was happy.

The 71-no s has to be a sleeper. Look at the mintage. That's a really rare coin.

cladking

I've talked to several wholesalers of modern material and none have ever gotten a '71 no-S nickel
in the sets they bought nor have any ever been approached by someone seeking a specific coin or
denomination. This has changed a little in recent years since the interest in these has grown, but
until recently there weren't people out there hoarding anything or setting aside vast quantities of
any of these coins. This is not to say there necessarily are now, just that it didn't exist back when
it was more likely to find such things.

While there have been a few massive buyers in more recent times it would seem improbable that any-
one could accumulate a significant percentage of any coin. Of course now that these are on ebay and
more readily available, someone with deep pockets could accumulate such a horde. I would expect
someone on this site to point it out before he got too far along though. For the main part all the more
collectible coins made since 1934 have been very widely distributed and reassembling them would be
an hurculean task.

No doubt these same considerations would apply to the older proof nickels but I've not watched them
so closely.

nwcs

Actually, I like the 1942 Type 1. And pairing it with a type 2 would make for an interesting pair.

segoja

Pics of the 1940 Cameo Jeff.

Not the best scan, but it does show the cameo.