What is your opinion concerning the state of Numismatics NOW?

Boom

Here's my opinion. people are no longer coin collectors, they are "plastic collectors". With the advent of reputable 3rd Party Grading Service, old tyme coin shops became obsolete. You know...the days when everything was raw and the dealer would claim a coin would be one grade and you either believed him or haggled. Unfortunately, with those types of shops came a lot of deceit and outright fraud. People dished out good money if they believed the dealers only to realize later that they had been had....that the supposed CH BU-Gem BU coin was nothing more than an altered coin or a CH slider. A lot of people lost a lot of money and were rightfully enfuriated once they had this "Epiphany". From that point on, basically all trust in these sorts of dealers was forever lost.

Nowadays people will seek out a grade, a number on a labled piece of plastic which again, is someone else's opinion. So far as eBay is concerned, if you sell there you must deal with fees and bargain hunters. By the time you tally up your bottom line you realize just exactly who is making the money. NOT YOU. If you have high priced-high quality, certified merchandise, the customers will either turn their noses up at it AND you and simply walk away, headed for the next person that didn't protect his investment by failing to place reserves on it or either started his items off basically at the prices he paid to obtain them. If you offer raw uncirculated coins, because of all the shenanigans of the past, you're right back to square one and nobody wants it.

Now the weird part about all this is the fact that these same bargain hunters pay a lot more at a major auction house-some charging as much as 20% "juice". The REALLY odd part of this picture is people pay crazy money for low pop items that can literally devalue overnight should population rise. They are also weird for "Color". And so, where do we go from here? If you're going to make it in this biz, inevitably you will have to resort back to the old way of buying low and selling high (Blue Book/Red Book)...almost like fishing- waiting for a live one to come along. But here's the catch. If you run a shop, you have overhead and MUST move inventory Even in cases such as my own, I already have inventory, 45 years of collecting, however the only way to make money is to go back to the Houses of Plastic and seek out the lowest fees to get your coins into the plastic or you must cater to what is hot at any given time. The bottom line, once again is certified coins due to the irrepairable damage caused by years and years of dealers defrauding the public at large.

Anyway, I just thought this might be an interesting topic and a chance to hear one another out and also to BE heard. So, if so moved, please share YOUR take on the State of Numismatics today. Thanks...B00M/ eBay Power Seller...pittbreederHave at it!

clw54

State of numismatics? Coins cost too much nowadays.

Louis

The market is pretty strong right now. I sold $16,280.00 worth of my coins at a local show last weekend. I hated to part with these "old friends" but I needed smoe extra money for things I will be needing for a house I'm closing on next month.

ccr

Yeah, I hate it when I pay $10 for a roll of quarters. I rather pay $5.

lordmarcovan

Your vision is just skewed by where you happen to be right now. Sure, it's all about plastic here, and understandably so, but don't worry- there are plenty of traditional collectors left out there, and even some who don't use the Internet.

Luvdawgs

<< <i>State of numismatics? Coins cost too much nowadays. >>



I agree with you, at least so far as US coins are concerned.

dpoole

Smoebody just offered to sell me a 59-D Quarter in MS67 for $42,500!!!!!!

Hope that price includes a nekkid nurse!

Tootawl

Is the state of Numismatics anywhere near the state of Maryland??

clw54

<< <i>Smoebody just offered to sell me a 59-D Quarter in MS67 for $42,500!!!!!!

Hope that price includes a nekkid nurse! >>


You can get one of those for a buck or two.

puff

<< <i>Wrong forum. Go away.

Russ, NCNE >>



I agree........Besides that I haven't seen to many "high priced" quality merchandise on Ebay to snub my nose at.

puff

<< <i>

<< <i>Smoebody just offered to sell me a 59-D Quarter in MS67 for $42,500!!!!!!

Hope that price includes a nekkid nurse! >>


You can get one of those for a buck or two. >>



Was that a slam because I mentioned my wife was a nurse on the other thread?!?!

dpoole

My wife's a nurse, too, Puff.

I know a thing or two about nekkid nurses!! [*slobber emoticon*]

RegistryCoin

It is still fun to get a bunch of rolls, or a bag to look through from a local bank, and it's also fun to break out the old metal detector.

MacCoin

Boom old buddy welcome to the 21st centory this is the age of the super infromation highway people are buy sight unseen more today than ever. not all these internet coin dealer are stand up guys like yourself they will sell anything they can make a buck, whizzed, clean. polished and say its ch bu gem for top dollar well us buyer need a little insurance form the 3rd party graders. its not so much the plasic but what inside it. I won't but raw sight unseen or graded from a show or shop.

LincolnCentMan

My experience is that collectors will pay strong for quality in the plastic. A lot of times, I'll pay average market for something and if it comes to me as a PQ coin, I'll make money. If not, then I break even or lose a little.

As far as the good ol days where collectors go to shops for coins, I fear those days are numbered. The overhead for doing things online is so much more attractive than opening a shop. Honestly, the only reason I could see to have a shop now-a-days is to have a place where you could buy stuff "off the streets."

I dont think that the ebay and the world wide web will wipe out the shows, though. There's just too many good things that go on there. I love going to shows to buy stuff. Going to the local coin dealer is almost like going to the dentist, though.

David

stman

You can always go do this... no "fees" that everybody complains about for exposure to the world.

No fees..... just go to work and come home.

mintluster

Coin shops are dead and what few are left will all be gone within 10 years I think.
Shows will continue to thrive because their is so much activity there, especially the big yearly shows.
The internet websites like David Lawrence Rare Coins has with a no hassle, no questions asked return policy is where the future is.
And of course eBay will remain strong.
Coins an paper money is still the best hobby of them all.
I have done baseball cards, comics, stamps, beanie babies, toys, civil war prints, and a few other things and nothing has even come close to coins in terms of money made and collecting fun and enjoyment.
Alexander the great collected coins. Julius Caesar collected coins. Past Presidents have collected coins. It truly is the oldest hobby in the world.
And in my opinion, easily the best.

puff

<< <i>My wife's a nurse, too, Puff.

I know a thing or two about nekkid nurses!! [*slobber emoticon*] >>



Damn SM1 moved the post on me D'poole!

majorbigtime

<< <i>Here's my opinion. people are no longer coin collectors, they are "plastic collectors".

You know...the days when everything was raw and the dealer would claim a coin would be one grade and you either believed him or haggled. Unfortunately, with those types of shops came a lot of deceit and outright fraud.

The bottom line, once again is certified coins due to the irrepairable damage caused by years and years of dealers defrauding the public at large.

>>



Good observations. However, the good 'ol days weren't all that good. In addition to the tug-of-war on grade, buyers were at higher risk of alterations and counterfeits.

Slabs offer good protection (much better tahn "flips" or "2 by 2s"), a third party opinion on grade and some assurance of authenticity. They have leveled the playing field substantilly.

Yes, the dealers brought it on themselves. Years ago, every coin was a gem when you were buying, and a dog when selling. Now days, in normally only moves from hi end to low end. Big difference!!

robertpr

So far as eBay is concerned, if you sell there you must deal with fees and bargain hunters. By the time you tally up your bottom line you realize just exactly who is making the money. NOT YOU.

HOLY CRAP, DID YOU HACK INTO MY EBAY ACCOUNT?

OnlyBuffalos

Coin Dealers - qualifications for being one haven't changed. No formal education required but business skills a must have. Street smarts still essential. Marketing skills a very big plus. Disappearance of small coin shops a major negative as these places were gathering sites where collectors could gather to discuss coins. Collectors are now more "loners" who interact via the internet rather than face-to-face. Large corporations/conglomerates much more prevalent today.

Grading - still the number one area for dissatisfaction and discussion. Third Party Grading companies are major players with enormous influence.

Auctions - much stronger force from Heritage to eBay. Many collectors get the majority of their coins this way. Commissions have doubled in the auction houses.

Coin shows - now essentially for dealer to dealer transactions. Perception is that many if not most dealers, at best, tolerate collectors. A situation that is so troubling that many collectors avoid shows or only go to a show to see a specific dealer or two.

Internet - enormous influence with major benefits but also major problems. eBay - one enormous essentially unregulated flea market where everyone eventually learns what caveat emptor means.

Modern coins - have revitalized the coin industry. Probably more total "market worth" in modern coins than pre-modern coins.

Local coin clubs - average members' age has grown, number of members down.

Availabilty of information -- way way up primarily due to internet.

ddink

<< <i>Here's my opinion. people are no longer coin collectors, they are "plastic collectors". >>



I agree, but I don't think it's because people are "lazy" or don't know how to grade, as many propose, but simply because of the insane price structure on many issues. I buy a $1200 coin that I'm certain is MS63 but it's raw, and later I go to sell it to someone who's "certain" it's an MS62, and I stand to lose maybe $800 (of course, many times the difference between two consecutive grades isn't so large, but often times it is). On the other hand, if PCGS says it's an MS63, and you think it's an MS62, maybe you won't buy it, but it's likely that someone will--just because "the experts" said it was 63. Gives you more confidence to pull the trigger when thousands of dollars can be at risk.

Boom

Thanks everybody, for taking part in my thread. I thought I would have been out of line in this forum but see that SM1 moved it

here from the Open Forum, soooo, "Thanks SM1", I was just kinda curious as to how others feel and typed this up as quickly as I

could on my way out the door. I appreciate everyone's contributions. These forums have helped me to learn something virtually

everyday....something new, after all these years!

Lakesammman

My take is that great coins have disappeared and are in hiding. It's getting frustrating trying to ferrit them out!

michael

Lakesammman
Expert Collector



My take is that great coins have disappeared and are in hiding. It's getting frustrating trying to ferrit them out!

-------------------------
I'm a buyer of IHC's, FE's, 1856-1864 Small Cent Patterns and IHC/FE Varieties - PM me if you have coins to offer.


as per the above my sentiments exactly and also the price ranges for these great coins can be from one hundred to the skys the limit




a great coin

for example

could be an exceptionally eye appealling original vf/xf barber quarter or half
to an exceptionally eye appealling superb gem proof strongly cameoed copper nick indian cent

michael

Myqqy

It's getting frustrating trying to ferrit them out!

Uh, that would be ferret them out... see photos at the bottom of this post!

Here's my opinion. people are no longer coin collectors, they are "plastic collectors"

I understand why people who start to think this- oftentimes when I visit some of the local shops here, the old shop owners seem almost befuddled sometimes if I try to discuss grading companies with them. I'm sure that they don't want to participate in the new slabbing game, and probably get frustrated by the extreme amounts of money that flow in that direction. Personally, there are some types of coins that MUST be in holders for me (like gold and cameo franklins), and plastic companies serve a very real need. But ultimately, I think real coin collectors love to think for themselves, and love to decide what qualities in coins are requirements for themselves- and they end up seeing past the plastic.

ARCO

There are billions of coins. I have chosen to collect coins of any series that a slab is not necessary. So far I have found many beautiful coins and enjoyed the hobby immensly without the need for plastic, although having the option of buying coins that have a third party opinion makes numismatics even more enjoyable and secure.

Tyler

Boom

The right plastic offers the collector a sort of safety net against deceptive dealers of raw coins, ANA members or not. The most recent that comes to mind is Ken Pines' Coast to Coast. I tried him a couple of times years ago and let him, Ms. Deisher, the ANA and the entire Coin World subscribers' base know, in no uncertain terms in the Letters to the Editor page, how I felt about this

scam artist along with all the rest that flashed the ANA logo so as to imply integrity and then politely fleeced the masses repeatedly with bogus usage of descriptive adjectives such as Superb Gem. I am glad he got thrown out as he was definitely guilty of "conduct unbecoming that of an ANA member/ dealer".

It didn't take long to figure out(contract or not) just how many coins he had to sell just to pay for the ads before ever making a dime. Come on, man! Gimme a break. PCGS, for one, gives people protection from predators like him who in the end will get theirs!



<< <i>I agree........Besides that I haven't seen to many "high priced" quality merchandise on Ebay to snub my nose at. >>

Oh really? Then I suppose you've never noticed the quality of the coins that Bob Zap, Manofcoins and others offer Puff. Are you implying that Bob's Quarters posted right now in PCGS 67 are not high priced, quality merchandise? What you been puffing, Dude? Get real!

MrEureka

But ultimately, I think real coin collectors love to think for themselves, and love to decide what qualities in coins are requirements for themselves- and they end up seeing past the plastic.

Of course. But many collectors have rationally increased their budgets because they think that plastic has lessened their financial risks. It's no different than with a blackjack player that has recently learned basic strategy and now feels comfortable betting larger amounts.

tradedollarnut

It's no different than with a blackjack player that has recently learned basic strategy and now feels comfortable betting larger amounts.

1957joe

<< <i>My wife's a nurse, too, Puff.

I know a thing or two about nekkid nurses!! [*slobber emoticon*] >>



Ditto here. My wife is a nurse too!!!!!!!!!! (the stories I could tell..........................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

cosmicdebris

We need federal intervention. They should regulate the coin industry and put a cap of 10% over face value on all numismatic items.

joeyuk

I prefer the internet over shops and shows because I look to fill certain holes in my collection or specific upgrades. I may only be in the market for 5 or 6 coins at a time and the internet is much more efficient way of finding them. Third party grading allows me to purchase sight unseen with more comfort. I still have to like the coin and in a slab if I sell/upgrade I can get a better price.


edit to add: I agree with much of what OnlyBuffalos said.

orie

There are so many more options, buying, selling and grading now then in years past. Much easier to find coins and to sell.
I have seen Coast to Coast being knocked on here a couple or more times. During the nineties I purchased modern dollar commems from them. Out on my 13 MS70's submitted to PCGS, at least 8 or 9 were purchased from Coast to Coast.