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How many IKE 1972P Type 2's are there?
earlwbollinger
Posts: 1,304
How many Type 2's do you think there are that could be collected?
PCGS shows 161 total registered out of which 123 are MS63 on up. I added a MS63 to that just recently.
NGC only shows 13 registered with them.
There are 31 PCGS coins registered in the IKE Variety Set category (that I saw right off).
It's a early in the morning curiosity I get before I have had enough coffee.
PCGS shows 161 total registered out of which 123 are MS63 on up. I added a MS63 to that just recently.
NGC only shows 13 registered with them.
There are 31 PCGS coins registered in the IKE Variety Set category (that I saw right off).
It's a early in the morning curiosity I get before I have had enough coffee.
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Comments
to the Caribean casinos and were used extensively.
It is conjecture as to what has happened to these coins after they left the mint.
It is true that many Ike's were used in the Casinos, but no one can say that there are not a few sealed $1,000 bags of Type 2's sitting in a vault some where (what a find that would be).
From my experience these coins are very difficult to find in quantity. I have only found about 10 total and never more than one or two in a roll (not for the lack
f looking).
About three or so months ago, I bought one off eBay that needs to be conserved. It was purchased as BU, but the pics clearly showed it needed some conservation. Looked like it had some kind of grease or something on it. Anyway, I asked the seller if he had more and he did, 8 more. So, I bought those too. All but two needed to be conserved, but they were nice grades ranging from MS62 to MS64. So, for the price I paid, I came out ahead. The two that did not need conserving graded PCGS MS63 and MS64. Some coins needed to be more conserved than others, but all in all, a nice purchase for my type 2 hoard. I sold 5 type 2s before I bought these and now wish I had not.
Since 13 were registered with NGC, I can make a guesstimate that maybe 25 are registered with the other grading services.
So that means there should be around 200 or so registered coins.
Now then a certain die pair made between 200 to 100,000 coins before it was stopped.
Most of those coins went to casinos, most likely in the Caribean.
Granted there may be someone hoarding raw coins, but it would behoove them to register them to make it easy to sell later and to protect the coins, so one can come to the conclusion that there aren't that many raw coins available to be registered that someone has hoarded. Otherwise they would have likely slabbed them already. I also don't see anyone trying to sell third party slabbed Type 2's on ebay or other websites either, so there may be very few registered with any of the other grading services if any were.
Humm.... one could infer that there looks to be only a few hundred that have survived the Casinos or other sources.
I would suspect that the majority of these were likely souvenirs brought back by various customers when they'd get a batch for the slot machines.
Then:
There is the possibility that somewhere there is a $1,000 bag of type 2's just waiting to be discovered (wouldn't that be fun?).
We've probably started a new "urban myth" with this possiblity though. A casino being a business would have spent them or used them up somehow quite quickly, even if they took the dollar slot machines offline.
Of course we do have that guy in Texas with 175,000+ IKE coins. I wonder if he has any type 2's in his pile of IKEs?
Wouldn't that be something, this guy might be sitting on thousands of 1972 type 2's.
without finding a single one!
I have been lucky enough to find 2 in one roll once, a couple of years ago. The highest I have
ever found raw is 64. They are tough to find,....especially in high grade....HECK, ANY 72-P Ike
above a 64 is considered GREAT!
Gandyjai
I bought an unopened $1,000 bag of 1972 Philly Ike's 2 years ago. Unfortunately, they were all T3's and nothing over a MS64. Also these coins are usually found mixed with other types.
I agree with Gandyjai, I have found 1 T2 in every 200 - 500 raw 72's (usually AU-MS63).
This leads to some nteresting math:
1 in 500 is = .002
There were about 76 million 1972 Philly Ike's minted (all types)
.002 X 76,000,000 = 152,000 (estimated number of T2's by observation)
This figure of 152,000 is remarkebly close to the 50,000 - 100,000 figure that is published.
If you estimate 1% survival in Uncirculated condition, this gives a number of 500 - 1,000 examples (10% survival = 5,000 - 10,000). Any way you look at this coin it is rare, and in gem state, is very likely to stay that way.
Check out the turnaround time.
Link
Gandyjai
Nice batch of type 2's there too.
My submission only took 52 days. I guess I got lucky.
Of course I am only submitting small batches of coins, not a whole bunch like some of the guys do.
Your Math On The Type # 2 Ike Would Work If More Than 1 Die Was Involved. However, This Does Not Appear To Be The Case.
I Have Found That Only One Die Was Used, And If so, No More Than 100,000 Strikes Were Made, According To Mint Information.
Die Life Was About 100,000 Strikes For Business Dies Using The New Steel.
It Would Be Less Than 60,000 Strikes, If The Old Steel Was Used.
Or It Could Be Only A Few Hundred IF The Die Broke !!!
If Anyone Discovers Another Die Being Used, Then Please Let The Rest Of Us Know.
The math I used was an observation of the number of coins that I and Gandyjai had found when searching raw 1972's. All that I was pointing out was that this "VERY ROUGH" number was remarkably close to the other estimates of 50,000 - 100,000 coins. I was not suggesting that the 152,00 estimate was a better one.
My point was that the 50,000 -100,000 estimate is probably right.
It's a relief to me to see that other knowledgeable submitters of Ike
Dollars also get their share of MS-64 C-N clad issues. I have boxes
of the coins that seemed nice enough to make the (worthwhile)
grade of MS-65.
I do slab any '72 T-2 Ike I have (AU-58/+) since there is interest in
them. I have an ANACS MS-65 '72 T-2 Ike $1 that PCGS won't cross
because of a planchet flaw (missing metal) on the reverse. The
obverse is MS-65, though.
MS-65/+ C-N clad Ikes remain strong in collector demand.
Cupronik
Steve
When they struck the coins on the reverse the little Earth planet on the coin is the difference.
Type one has continents, more or less, struck OK, you can see the little islands in the Caribean. Note that some of the islands are a little to the west of Florida.
Type two, was an attempt by the mint to improve the striking of the coins so they came up with a higher relief Earth, but
pretty much mushed out the continents and eliminated the islands. Probably when they gave the dies a good polishing.
This set of dies was intended for the Proof sets and special mint sets and such.
Type three, the Earth has better definition continents and the islands are visible again. But you'll note that the islands do not extend west past Florida like in the type ones.
Anyway, the circulation strike type two coins came about because someone used a reverse die from a proof set or uncirculated mint set. Thus they struck somewhere between 200 to 100,000 coins (the life expectancy of a typical die).
Since the clad coins are pretty hard, it is difficult to get a good strike, plus it wears out dies pretty fast too.
But we don't know for sure how many they really struck with that one die being used. No one has identified another die, so only one die was used. Also we don't know if the die was a new spare or a used one being recycled after striking collector coins or not.
At that time many of the coins struck were bagged and sold to casinos in the Caribean. So we don't really have a lot of these type two varieties in good condition left.
Of course I think we have a good urban myth going about a lost $1,000 bag of type 2 coins out there waiting to be discovered.
The easiest way to see the 3 types of 1972 Ike's is to look at the reverse of the Silver Mint State Ike's form 1971, 1972, and 1973. The 1971 S has the T1 reverse, the 1972 S has the T2 reverse, and the 1973 has the T3 reverse.
Once you have seen the difference it is quite easy to tell them apart.
Steve
PS I found one 1972 Ike hidden in a "coin drawer" at home, but, alas, it was a Type 1.