HELP! Are these fake? Orr / Gretzky Rookie Cards

inFluX

I won these two auctions off ebay from the same person. Seemed legit to me. 6308 Postitive feedbacks.. member of ebay since '98 like myself. Seller stated to me that yes they are 100% real. That she's had them since 1983. Plus she's only 3 hours away from me.. They look too good to be true to me and I know these two cards along with the fake Jordan RC's are usualy sold at the same time by dishonest sellers. My other Gretzky RC's are away in the mail getting graded so I can't compare them with this one. What do you guys think?

I would get them graded to make sure but I would like to nip it in the butt right away if they are fake as it takes a long time to get cards back.. (I live in Canada)

Here are the auctions...

ebay Gretzky RC auction
ebay Orr RC auction

Here are my scans of the cards.

Gretzky Front
Gretzky Back

Orr Front
Orr Back

I very much appreciate all of your opinions..

pandrews

i dont know enough about either of them, but I remember GoodRiddance saying that the real Gretzky's have a yellow print dot on his left shoulder, which yours does also.. but i dont know what else to look for.. i think GoodRiddance and Yawie are the resident hockey experts.. maybe they'll know..

goodriddance189

they both look legit.

envoy98

I don't know anything about fake Orr's but the scan of the gretzky is large enough that it looks legit to me. I would have them both graded too. both for authenticity and the Gretzky looks decent. I didn't look at the orr cuz I know nothing about them. (Counterfeit vs. real)

pick6investments

envoy- I think the scan is real for sure but I would advise him to check the card when he gets it to verify the print dot on the shoulder. If the scammers are getting smarter they will scan a REAL CARD and then send a fake. What do you thinnk?

A761506

I'd measure them prior to sending them in... they both look ok in the scans that you made of them... the Gretzky shoulder mark is there and the Orr looks ok without actually holding it to feel the cardstock and look at it under a loupe. As long as the cards are not off more than 1/32 of an inch, I'd submit both of them for sure... If the Orr is authentic and untrimmed, it looks like a solid 6, possibly a 7.

tripoli

Nice orr card, but the centers will probably keep it a PSA 6, maybe 7. The price you paid is about par with a recent PSA 6 that sold on ebay iirc.

dan

ranch

I have seen a lot of Gretzky's OPC rookies as well as owning a few, and the one in your scan looks legitimate to me.

I am not an expert when it comes to 1966/67 Topps. I have never owned an Orr RC, and I have seen very few in person. Anyhow, it's always best never to buy them in raw form. WAYYYYYY too many counterfeits out there...you took a big risk by bidding on a raw one...

But since both cards are from the same seller, I don't think you need to worry.

inFluX

<< <i>I think the scan is real for sure but I would advise him to check the card when he gets it to verify the print dot on the shoulder. If the scammers are getting smarter they will scan a REAL CARD and then send a fake. What do you thinnk? >>


I took the scans.. not the seller..



Thanks for your opinions of the cards. More are definitly welcome to anyone who hasn't gotten their 2 cents in yet as to what they think.. I went to a shop today and bought a common 1966 topps card for $5 to compare the Orr too and a common '79 OPC to compare the Gretzky too.. Going to go check them out right now.

phreakydancin

Check out these articles on beckett.com.

inFluX

Cool thanks for that.. From that Beckett article and from comparing them to the common cards I bought today they're no doubt real in my opinion. I will be sending them away as soon as I get my very first batch of cards back just to be sure.. I planned on getting them graded anyway. I wonder what the Gretzky will get it's by far the nicest I've ever held in my hands.

inFluX

Well I checked the status of the Gretzky and Orr today on SGC's website and I'm pretty upset with the results.

The Orr... 0 - Evidence of Trimming
Gretzky... 50 ?!!?!

I'm disapointed to say the least. The Orr.. Fine its trimmed and trying to get my money back from the seller which isn't going very well.

The Gretzky... how the heck does this beautiful card get a 4?! I'm thinking it was damaged in shipping or mabye accidently mixed up with another one with the grader? I should have got an 8 minimum! No creases..

ugh.. so upsetting.. almost $2,000 down the drain anyone know if I got any recorse with the seller?

packCollector

the gretzky probably has a wrinkle somewhere that will show right up when using a loupe. doubt you have much recourse, you bought raw cards and didn't have any complaints and now that they have been shipped around again, the seller will probably put up a fight. the orr you may have better luck since it was altered.

A761506

Your chance of getting your money back on the Orr is slim. You have had the card for a considerable period of time, the seller could make the claim that you switched it, or trimmed it yourself, or a number of other things.

Prior to you sending in the cards, I had suggesting measuring them both... I feel it is important to do this on every single card submitted, as having a card come back with evidence of trimming or miscut, and wasting the time and money on the grading is very frusterating.

The Gretzky more than likely got the grade it did due to a small surface wrinkle that you did not detect. Extremely slim chance they switched the card by accident, and unless you packaged it poorly for shipping, I doubt it sustained damage while at SGC.

inFluX

Ugh.. This sucks. I'll definitely take this as a lesson learned.

With the seller being only 3 hours away from me you can imagine what nasty thoughts must be going through my mind.

EagleEyeKid

Influx, not to pour more salt in the open wound; but I'm a little
puzzled as to the amount you paid for the Orr in the first place in raw state.
Assuming the card was unaltered and hoping for a 6 at best; your money should
of gone to one that was already graded in that condition.
Again, with the Gretzky at that price in raw, another 200 bucks would fetch
a PSA 8 with some patience. I know you're trying to pick these 2 cards when available.....
I suggest you just buy them already graded in the future. Too much $ is involved, and too
much BS out there. I agree that your chances are slim on recouping a refund for the Orr.
Too much time has passed since the end of auction and he'll probably say you trimmed it or whatever
excuse. Upon receipt of any high dollar card raw card; you should/must expect it thoroughly.
Although I would never purchase a high dollar raw card on Ebay. It has to be at a show or in person
where I can hold it in my hand and check it closely. Sorry for your loses/experience. Expensive lesson.

inFluX

I know.. I know.. I got carried away bidding and there was always that what if it gets a 9 when I grade it going through my head.

ArtRossLives

They both looked real to me, sorry to hear about the trimming - I would have been taken also.

aro13

inFluX - Just because SGC said the card was trimmed does not definately guarantee the card was trimmed. If I get a card back that is trimmed, and I cannot see exactly where, I usually re-submit the card. If it comes back trimmed the second time, than I am more likely to believe that it is trimmed.

tripoli

Are you going to 'out' this ebay power seller? Nice customer service......Yet another reason not to buy high priced raw cards, no matter who is doing the selling, because PSA will never agree with marketing hype that goes on with raw cards for obvious reasons.

And it's not enough to just measure the cards, I believe that when it comes to meeting minimum standards, PSA also considers the weight of the card.

inFluX

I'll take a closer look at the Orr when I get it back and if I can't tell if it's been trimmed I'll send it away again perhaps to a different grader.

The seller keeps telling me in his defence 'I got in from a Customer in 1987 well be for it was worth anything and he got it from his Dad' which is funny because when I asked if the card were real and not reprints back before I even placed a bid he said the same thing except he left out the Dad part and said 1983 rather than '87.

I thought a seller with over 6000 positive feedbacks along with close to a 100% feedback rateing would have been more generous by either refunding my money or offering some money back or even refunding my money for just one of the cards..

I don't sell tons on ebay but the few times I have sold an item whether it be a card or something else and the buyer isn't happy with it due to a flaw with the item I don't just say 'Woop too bad, your a sucker'.. I give them choices.. their full money back if they send the item back to me or offer them a fair X dollar amount back if they were to keep the item.

I don't even want to leave negative feedback for this seller because chances are they'll just give me negative feedback then as well.

Well I now know that even power sellers with tons of great feedback can be lowsy ebayers.

phreakydancin

I'm looking at the Orr scan again. I can't see where it could have been trimmed except on the right side, as both left corners are touched and the top edge at the right is chipped. When you get it back, take a close look to see if you can figure out what they saw as evidence of trimming. Perhaps it was just a factory mis-cut that doesn't quite measure up?

wallst32

First of all, the seller didn't state any type of return policy.

Secondly, if you were unhappy with the cards, it should have been when you received them, not after you got an opinion from SGC. The deal wasn't contingent upon the cards being gradeable by a grading card company or attaining a certain grade level. All the seller said was they were authentic and apparently SGC agrees with that assesment.

No offense influx, but sometimes people expect way too much. So if the cards graded as 8s and you got an incredible deal this guy would be a great seller, but since they are low or rejected this guy is a lousy seller? The whole purpose of buying graded cards is there (USUALLY) aren't any surprises like this, but buying raw, especially with these high profile cards, is always a big risk.

Let's assume the seller is perfectly honest with good intentions, and he doesn't believe the card is trimmed or the card has a serious flaw. Well you had them in hand also and didn't pick up on any of these either. Of course it is quite possible he knows the cards are "bad" and in this case he is a dishonest crook, or perhaps someone else dumped the cards on him and he didn't know any better. That's something only the seller and previous owners will ever know, so no point in speculating.

EagleEyeKid

I don't even want to leave negative feedback for this seller because chances are they'll just give me negative feedback then as well.

You're a saint, and he's only 3 hours away from you.
$1,250........I'd be in jail by now.

inFluX

wallst32... ya.. ya.. Can't I still be bitter and b!t*h? Geese.. I didn't even complain about the French guys horrible english.. ugh!



<< <i>You're a saint, and he's only 3 hours away from you. >>



EagleEye.. hmm maybe I'll write 'This is my negative feedback..' on his vehicle with a sharpie pen and continue to decorate the rest of his vehicle. Purhaps 'TRIM' a few things off his car.






edited... had to add the french thing..

EagleEyeKid

Influx, I dunno...maybe just me. I know you're p*ssed, but dude.......
I'd put on my Mickey Mouse ears and guns ablazin' by now

A761506

It's only money boys... if you have $2,000 to burn on a couple cards to begin with, losing it certainly won't change your life, so it's time to chalk it up as a lesson learned the hard way, stop fretting, and move on to big and better things.

JrMacdaddy

<< <i>No offense influx, but sometimes people expect way too much >>



Like a card not being trimmed?