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1958 Herrer error cards- Griffins

Hey,

I read your post that you saw the three 1958 topps Herrer"A" error cards at the 707 display at the national-

I was not impressed with his examples- one was not even graded as an error by PSA but I guess he was claiming it was because a very small amount of the "A" was missing. Moreover, the other two PSA graded examples also had a significant amount of the "A" visible including one with the vast majority of it visible.

In your example is the "A" visible and to what extent (if it is).

The previous example I saw (picture in magazine and on internet) of this card did not show any of the "A" visible!

Finally, I posted this once but any comments on the guy who is selling his 1958 topps complete mid-grade set on Ebay claiming that he is including an error card (one of a kind)-- its a "wrongback" of the Foiles card with a Kaline back- it has generated a whole lot of bids so far on Ebay for a complete set that is mostly ungraded.

Comments

  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    RG:

    That's basically the whole problem with a broken die error card, isn't it? How much of the letter is visible or not.

    On an interesting corrolary - the vast amounts of altered T206 "Nodgrass" error cards perpetrated by (greenhornet007, I though...) that found their way into graded card holders many moons ago is quite problematic. The end result of that debacle is that significant premiums are paid for T206 Nodgrass cards where a partial "S" is visible. If it does not have some S there, it sells for much less, due to a cloud of suspicion surrounding the card.

    You don't see too many 1950s wrongbacks anymore - but they don't have a huge following, either...
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,076 ✭✭✭
    I talked with Levi for a while about this- other than the one I have they are the only ones I've ever seen, and think it is one of the rarest post WW2 cards out there- if you count it as a variation, rather than a printer's freak.
    My Herrer has no "A" at the end at all. It is a PSA 5, that I had graded after buying it raw as part of a '58 set in Mastro a few years back (on a side note at the time I couldn't decide whether to get the '58 set with the yellow letter variations or the Herrer- I had only been back in the hobby a year or so. Glad I guessed right, the YL's took me all of a week to pick up) Levi and Jim have handled a few of them and I got the impression they are all a bit different. It seems like as the press run was ongoing the plate was blocking up, bit by bit. He had one what was "Herre" and one that was almost "Herr".
    I was told by someone that one had sold in pretty high grade a few years back for over 10K, and a few had gone for 5-8K in lesser condition. I do know that none have come up for public sale in auction catalogs in the last 3 years.
    If you'd like a scan of mine shoot me a pm and I"m happy to send it out.
    Anthony

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • calleochocalleocho Posts: 1,569 ✭✭
    image


    I would love to own this card
    "Women should be obscene and not heard. "
    Groucho Marx
  • GriffinsGriffins Posts: 6,076 ✭✭✭
    Calle-
    That is about what mine looks like in regards to the "Herrer" part.
    Levi has 3 if you need one- bring your Visa card!

    Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's

  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    Anthony:

    I'm highly confident (getting old though - so the memory is not what it used to be) that BMW had the PSA 8 version of the card that was listed in the $10k range. I'm pretty sure they sold it - and it was long enough ago that it was before they were big SGC champions.

    Best,
    ~ms
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • If you look back at the archives of Superior Auctions from 1998-1999 you'll find where Wentz got the card.
    I want to say December 1998.
    Buying 1957 Baseball PSA 8 or higher. Especially Checklists, and Contest Cards. Topps1957psa8set@aol.com
  • RG58RG58 Posts: 119
    thanks for all the info

    the scan above is the one I am use to seeing and it was what I was "expecting" to see in the display box at the National- I was just very surprised to see the differences in the variation. I guess you can call it variations of a variation!

    Griffins,

    glad to hear yours lacks any real hint of the "A" as I would assume this would be more valuable IMHO- nice choice when picking up the set at the auction.

    About 4 months ago I was at a card show and saw a 1958 yellow letter Del Ennis Card that had this funky looking double transfer of the color. I almost bought it... I couldn't decide whether the card was just junk or truly represents an "error" in the market place. I guess there is a fine line.

    Thanks again
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭
    Message of clarification received from MW on this topic:

    Marc,

    CDC4 posted the following on the 1958 Herrer error thread:

    "If you look back at the archives of Superior Auctions from 1998-1999 you'll find where Wentz got the card. I want to say December 1998."

    This is inaccurate. The Superior card sold in December of 1999. Here is a link to the auction:
    Superior Herrer

    The card that we owned was submitted raw (by us) and later sold to a private collector in January of 1999. Here is a link to the 1958 Herrer error (PSA 8) that we once owned:

    BMW's 58 Hererr

    If you get some time, I would appreciate it if you could post this correction. Thank you.

    Sincerely,

    Michael

    FYI: As far as I know, there are at least five different known "Herrer" variations including: 1. "Herr" (with part of the "e"), 2. "Herre" (with part of the "r"), 3. Herrer (no "a"), 4. Herrer (partial "a"), 5. Herrera ("a" faded at very edge of letter).
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    Pop report for Herrer:

    433 PANCHO HERRERA HERRER 2 2 1 1 2 0 1 1 0 0 0 11
    CARD NO NAME VARIETY 1-2 3-4 5 6 7 7Q 8 8Q 9 9Q 10
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    That didn't post as clearly as I would have liked, but 1 8 and 1 8Q - wtf?

    edited to add - I see now that BMW's is not labeled as such. Weird that PSA would mislabel a flip on a card as important as this one.
  • theBobstheBobs Posts: 1,136 ✭✭
    It's not like its a Rose rookie or something
    Where have you gone Dave Vargha
    CU turns its lonely eyes to you
    What's the you say, Mrs Robinson
    Vargha bucks have left and gone away?

    hey hey hey
    hey hey hey
  • RG58RG58 Posts: 119
    Well, I guess the guys on the board have once again showed how inaccurate the pop reports are for high grade rare cards. If someone thought they were the only owner of a PSA 8 Herrer error card, I guess its safe to say there is at least one more floating around mislabelled!

    One thing for sure is that the 1958 topps PSA Population report is a complete mess!
  • mikeschmidtmikeschmidt Posts: 5,756 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That didn't post as clearly as I would have liked, but 1 8 and 1 8Q - wtf?

    edited to add - I see now that BMW's is not labeled as such. Weird that PSA would mislabel a flip on a card as important as this one. >>



    Mudflap - I am certainly not defending PSA, as I don't agree with many of their decisions and/or processes. That being said - things have changed a lot over the past 5 years - and both Herrer PSA 8's were graded over five years ago. For a number of years, for example, PSA would just label 1955 Bowman variation cards as the name on the card - never identifying which variation the card was. It is only in the past 2-3 years that they have gotten a lot better about this, and I think that they won't grade them anymore without identifying it as one or the other.

    That being said - they still don't routinely grade the Pavlica variation - which is a clear, 100% variation that is easy to see based upon the writings on the back of the card. Argh!

    And - variations being important and all - PSA won't grade original T-206 cards based upon the advertising back (exception on Ty Cobb back), despite the fact that Drums, Uzits and BroadLeaf 460s sell for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars. However, PSA has no qualms about grading 2003 Topps T206 cards based upon their advertising back. SILLINESS!!!! image
    I am actively buying MIKE SCHMIDT gem mint baseball cards. Also looking for any 19th century cabinets of Philadephia Nationals. Please PM with additional details.
  • mudflap02mudflap02 Posts: 2,060 ✭✭
    Well put MS. While I agree that while there are errors in PSA's Pop report system, with the amount of cards that are submitted, not to mention the number of cracked resubmissions, it should probably be used as an estimate than an exact science. However, it is the only thing we have to work with, and they do their best - like it or not, it's by far the best system of its type in the world, and it is definitely a worthwhile asset to the hobby.
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