What really really old coin do you have?
earlwbollinger
Posts: 1,304
Here is my example of a AE Dolphin money coin from Ancient Olbia on the Black Sea, circa 500BC.
You can still make out the eyes, mouth and side fins too.
You can still make out the eyes, mouth and side fins too.
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I've only had maybe one or two coins that old. Actually, I can only remember one- a pretty little Corinthian stater. And come to think of it, even that was not quite so old.
--Severian the Lame
Here is a Siglos from the Perisan Empire under Xerxes from about 450-350BC.
The Persians did the unthinkable way back then when they marched over to Lydia in the winter
and conquered Croesus' kingdom in a total surprise move. At that time it was customary to hold the wars
in the summer between or after the spring and fall harvests. Thus Croesus basically had only his core professional army available
and the Persians overwhelmed them.
One side shows the typical Persian archer in a sort of kneeling ot running mode. The other side has five bankers or money changers
punch marks proving it's the real thing and not a fake. Even way back in 450-350BC you still had counterfeiters.
karlgoetzmedals.com
secessionistmedals.com
JR
<< <i>Welcome to the forums sammydabull. You and I have bid on MANY of the same auctions on eBay. Glad to have you here (instead of there).
JR >>
sorry different guy
Thanks for the welcome regardless
<< <i>
<< <i>Welcome to the forums sammydabull. You and I have bid on MANY of the same auctions on eBay. Glad to have you here (instead of there).
JR >>
sorry different guy
Thanks for the welcome regardless
Cool! At least I don't have to try and be polite to someone who has cost me too much money by running my bids up (and vice versa).
Welcome!!!
Jim
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
collecting life, i couldn't find any coin older than 1940. So you can imagine how thrilled i was when i finally got a 1906 indian cent.. and then an actual 1898 indian cent... and finally a year later, a real live ancient roman coin! Right now it stands at a very worn tiny coin from thrace struck around 480 bc. But i'll happily trade it for Weiss's coin.
1361 - 1364 Flanders, Louis de Male, franc a' cheval
I'd love to have a really frickin' old coin that actually has a date on it.
My oldest dated coin is a Polish half grosz from 1506.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
Actually quite a few ancient coins have dates on them.
The problem is the dates typically are relative to the year of the reign of the previous and current rulers of a particular kingdom or empire, or some big event that occurred.
For example: something like "4th year of Mohammad II's reign". Except they tend to stylize and abbreviate it considerably in order to get it to fit. Roman coins do the same thing. But sometimes they commemorate some event that occurred as well, such as the "first anniversary of Ceasar's victory against the Gauls".
Plus when one citystate or kingdom got conquered by another, they would (obviously) adopt the dating system of the new rulers.
A lot of the coinage was used as a communications media tool way back then. Most of the people were illiterate and coins were a handy way of conveying messages and such around the kingdom or empire. A new coin would have a new ruler's face on it, for example.
During these ancient times, our current DATE and TIME system did not exist.
BC, AD, etc did not exist then.
<< <i>."I'd love to have a really frickin' old coin that actually has a date on it."
Actually quite a few ancient coins have dates on them.
The problem is the dates typically are relative to the year of the reign of the previous and current rulers of a particular kingdom or empire, or some big event that occurred.
For example: something like "4th year of Mohammad II's reign". Except they tend to stylize and abbreviate it considerably in order to get it to fit. Roman coins do the same thing. But sometimes they commemorate some event that occurred as well, such as the "first anniversary of Ceasar's victory against the Gauls".
Plus when one citystate or kingdom got conquered by another, they would (obviously) adopt the dating system of the new rulers.
A lot of the coinage was used as a communications media tool way back then. Most of the people were illiterate and coins were a handy way of conveying messages and such around the kingdom or empire. A new coin would have a new ruler's face on it, for example.
During these ancient times, our current DATE and TIME system did not exist.
BC, AD, etc did not exist then. >>
Well, this is true. The oldest "dated" coin is dated as "year 1" viz. 494 BC. I meant, however, a coin dated with the modern-ish year system. I'm pretty sure there are dated coins from the early Christian Era (in fact, one of my guinness books lists a Bishop of Roskilde coin of Denmark dated "MCCXXXIIII" (1234), though only about 6 are known). That's what I'm looking for, and I know old UK and Briton coins are a REALLY good source of this. Oldest dated US coin I know of are 1652 shillings. That right there is almost 150 years older than my oldest dated (1798 large cent).
Let's see, Julius Ceasar instigated the Julian Calendar system which was changed by the church to the Gregorian system around 1582 or there abouts. Pope Gregory actually removed 10 days from March to get the calendar back in synch. Thus it was then eleven days off from the Julian calendar.
So then it was about 1582 or so before we have our first real calendar that could be used for dates.
Now then Arabic Numerals is the next problem. Up until about 1500-1600 Roman numerals were still the official numbering system. Even though scholars were discussing the merits of Arabic numerals as far back as 1100-1200 or so, Roman Numerals were still used for all official functions. So it is doubtful we'd really start to see meaningful Arabic Numeral year dates on coins before at least 1582 or so. It looks like most countries stuck to Roman Numerals up into the 1600's, thus year dates would have been typically done in Roman Numeral fashion for official purposes.
So it looks like the Spanish in the 1500's or 1600's were probably the first to use Arabic Numerals on their coins. That was probably because Ferdinand and Isabella had driven out the Muslims in the late 1400's, so something as useful as the Arabic Numeral system would likely get used there first as more people would have been familiar with it at that time.
Of course the Portuguese had likely been using the Arabic Numerals on the "secret" maps of the period, but I don't think they would have been putting year dates on coins yet.
So I would bet that the first year dates on coins would likely be on Spanish coins from about 1520-1536 year timeframe.
That is a really neat coin too. Way back then a penny was a silver coin worth a lot more than a penny by our modern standards.
Does that coin have a Arabic Numeral Date on it?
I think what we are trying to find now is the oldest coin that has a recognizeable (by our normal year date system) year date
on it.
I think Jester has the oldest dated coin at 1506.
Does it have Arabic Numerals on it?
At http://americanhistory.si.edu/csr/nnc/spain/spain.htm
They discuss a 1608 Arabic Numeral dated Gold Escudo, which looks to be about as old as the Spanish coins get with dates on them.
1361 - 1364 Flanders, Louis de Male, franc a' cheval
GDJMSP,
I gotta ask this. It's slabbed, so what's the grade?
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DPOTD 3
Seeing as I don't collect anything without a date, that is pretty old.
Ebay name: bhil3
start dating coins until 1617. Anyway any of the cobs that made it to Spain were melted down and made into better spanish coins or
Jewelry, etc.
Here is a couple of coins with real Arabic numeral Dates on them.
Spain 1608 Gold Escudo
Spain 1659 50 reales
<< <i>You guys really didn't want me to post this again I'm sure - but it is my oldest
1361 - 1364 Flanders, Louis de Male, franc a' cheval
GDJMSP,
I gotta ask this. It's slabbed, so what's the grade? >>
It is slabbed - by NGC. According to them it is the finest they have ever seen. I have searched high, low and everywhere in between in this country and Europe - and not been able to find one - or records of one - as nice. It is quite possibly the finest known.
My half grosz uses Arabic numbers. I don't know of any Polish coins that use the Roman Numeral system.
"Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." -Luke 11:9
"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." -Deut. 6:4-5
"For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; He will save us." -Isaiah 33:22
<< <i>My oldest coin at the minute is a King Stephen penny minted 1136-1145ish.
That is a really neat coin too. Way back then a penny was a silver coin worth a lot more than a penny by our modern standards.
Does that coin have a Arabic Numeral Date on it?
I think what we are trying to find now is the oldest coin that has a recognizeable (by our normal year date system) year date
on it. >>
Nope no date on it, oldest UK coins with dates on are Edward VI coins, i think the Roman numerals were first on the 1548 shilling and the arabic numbers followed in 1551 for the crown and halfcrown.
Now I'll have to go out and look for one too.
Oldest dated: Sicily folland(?) AH533 (1138 AD)
Oldest dated (Western): Austria 1530 2 pfennig
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