Stupid? Crazy maybe...but I'm guessing not stupid.
RELLA
Do not fall into the error of the artisan who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft while in fact he has had only one year of experience... twenty times.
Young Numismatist that collects: Morgan Dollars, SAE, Proof Sets, and Liberty Nickels. I also love to go through rolls to find coins. BST MySlabbedCoins
On another thread I talked about my 1920S one grade below. My 1932 PCGS MS66RD was bought by me from Jakes Coins in Chicago in 1985 for $33. In 2001 I finally sent it to PCGS and it graded 66, a $200 coin. It fits into my collection nicely and somehow I can't see trading up to a 67 for $18k+. JMHO. Steve
<< <i> You have a link Steve to your registry sets in your signature. Nice sets indeed! >>
Thanks, I do own the complete Lincoln business strike set in uncirculated (except the 1922 plain in VF30). Most of my coins are just not worth sending in for grading. The missing expensive ones were body bagged. (1914S 4 times). I have a 5 coin order in to economy now which includes the 2004S from the proof set. The other 4 are business strikes for 1909,1911, 1925 and 1925D. We will see how many make it. Steve
That is what I was wondering as well. "Is this an error of some sort?" I am not sure how, though. It may just be a case of a couple of the "big hitters" doing "whatever it takes" to get the coin. I am pretty sure Lauren's Lincolns needs one as well as Bender. A couple of guys like that going toe to toe might be what we are seeing.
David,
Yep, think about it. You have a very clean nicely struck 32-P that is just as pleasing to look at for $200!
Stewart,
I have a database with records of sales of high end Lincolns from back in the late eighties to present. I didn't even record 32-P until 1994 because it was so inexpensive. I have two (67RD's) from that year selling for $300! You say "It's all Gerry's fault" often, but I will guarantee you that Gerry is not a player on this coin. In fact, as you are well aware, Gerry's set is complete and he is really not a factor in these continually soaring prices. You are going to have to start saying "It's all Bickel's fault" or It's all Bender's fault".
O'K Stewart, you got me on that one. Yes, Gerry probably updates a coin now and then. I am just trying to point out that in most instances he is not in the mix. So clearly there are others that are sending these prices soaring. Andy joked with me before that a couple of years ago it was "The Tom & Gerry Show". Other than an occasional rerun, that show is pretty much over for this type of coin. Now, it's "The Bill and Bender" show and it doesn't look like this is a comedy series. Each episode is as serious as a heart attack.
We are all affected by inflation in the prices of Lincoln cents:
Stewart recently bought a decent copy of the 1951 Lincoln in ms67 to improve his collection for the very fair price of $3,000. Good for him. However, almost four years ago I bought what has turned out to be a very high-end copy ago for $750. So it works both ways. Stewart too is a factor in that price inflation.
As an aside, I am glad that Stewart, as a recognized Lincoln authority, has come to the realization that there is some value in later-date Lincolns. Maybe one of these days he will finally buy a high-grade memorial from wondercoin. Ah, to be a fly on the wall for that transaction would be worth a lot.
Anyone who has been buying Lincolns for three or four or more years is naturally going to complain that they can’t get coins they may want for those prices that prevailed in the “good old days.” That’s the downside of price inflation. The upside is that what you have is worth a lot more, at least on paper. Some would like to have the latter without the former, but they can’t! Life isn’t always “more than fair.”
A couple of other loose ends:
(1) Stewart would love all of his fellow Lincoln collectors to start acquiring Canadian cents to boost prices in that market. Sorry to say “no way!” The attraction in what I collect is Lincoln and the upcoming anniversary, not copper per se. In addition, I love the Yankees. I could never root for the Blue Jays. U.S.A all the way!
(2) Everyone knows who Dave Schweitz is, but some may wonder who the puppy dog is that Stewart referred to. Without revealing any specific identity, I can tell you that from my experience, that dog is a “golden retriever!” However, I can understand that others may think of him as a “pit bull” because he has a sharp bite!
(3) Lastly, congratulations to Stewart on being number uno in all those PCGS Lincoln registry sets once again for this year. He is still the King and deserves it for being a diligent collector for just about 50 years.
Wow 50 years of collecting Lincolns. I guess when Stewart started all the 1930's coins that are outrageous right now were just considered "moderns" then.
Gerry - I actually paid $4,000 for your 1951 that I bought from your golden retriever (Andy Skrabalak).Please tell me Gerry why you think of Andy as a dog ? woof woof I will never buy a memorial cent from wondercoin.I never ever bought anything from him.IMO he is not a coin dealer but rather lawyer in the coin business. BTW I will probably never do business with you golden retriever again.Its sad how he has turned out.
Jack - and you say Gerry is not a factor? Just ask Schwewitz or his puppy dog.
Stewart,
I've been watching you comment on these boards for months now. You sound like a pathetic child who won't allow anyone else to play in his sandbox. Grow up or go play somewhere else. Are you a jealous dealer or collector?
The "puppy dog" you happen to mention and his friend are helping me slowly build a superb Lincoln/Indian set. Just wait, I'll register it AFTER I am finished.
I have no problem with Gerry or puppy backing up the market. I know at least they step up and put their money where they inhabit.
Mike
P.S. In case you haven't noticed, the market is much bigger than just you and Gerry.
Welcome to the boards. That's the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread. The Lincoln cent series is very popular with a large number of collectors chasing high grade specimens. The rising prices can't be blamed on one or even a couple collectors.
Welcome to the message boards.Perhaps you can come out of your closet and inform us of your vast knowledge of Lincoln cents.Your also welcome to play in EVERYBODYS sand box (as you call it) of collecting LIncoln cents.I am a collector of Lincoln cents,Indian cents etc.When can I expect you to finish your set?
"Perhaps you can come out of your closet and inform us of your vast knowledge of Lincoln cents"
Sorry, I won't post my set until I'm done. I won't give anyone the satisfaction of ruining my surprise!
I collect for fun. My day job is crazy and stressful.
You guys sound scared-who cares? I just want to build the best set I can afford, and have fun. And to me the fun will be where I end up when I'm finished.
Relax Mike ! You've stated your a crazy collector.Your day job is crazy and stressful.This is the weekend.
Do you collect Lincoln varieties or are you just a straight up kind of guy ? Do you like red/brown coins or only red specimens?How did you get into coin collecting? Do you consider yourself a numismatist?
What do you know about Gerry besides he has VERY deep pockets,he's cheap(he'll invite you to dinner and offer you a bone to nibble on).Yes he does support the Lincoln cent market.IMO he is THE cause of modern Lincolns in the thirties and the forties selling for moon money.IMO he has created a bubble which will break.Did you know Gerry is a 75 year old stud with a young wife ? Bless him I wonder how he would compete against Bob Dole ?Gerry also has a wonderful Lincoln cent collection with mint state,Proof,varieties,wheats and Memorials and even different die states.When he wants a coin he will never back down.When he sells you a coin remember he always has better and you may be buying his mistake.He is definitely underhanded.And lastly his love of Lincoln cents is so great when his son was missing in the World Trade Center during 9-11 Lincoln Cents helped him through his difficult times.As a matter of fact his collection is named after his son. The Thomas Irwin collection.
Me ? I'm a dinosaur or as Gerry called me an anachronism.I'm also broke which means I can't buy Jack anymore.No I'm not selling my coins.I have been collecting certified Lincolns since 1988 about the time of the inception of the grading service.I use to collect as a kid doing the Whitman coin album thing.I probably have less invested in my collection than Gerry has invested in his 1943 D cent.But then again his 1943 D cent is a numismatic treasure.
I like Gerry a lot. I really feel for him about his son. I hope to meet him one day. I live and work in NYC and have suffered too from 9/11. He and Andy really are nice people. You should not be jealous of them.
No, I don't collect varieties. I'm a straight up kind of guy!
I would only hope that when someone writes another biographical sketch of me, it will be more accurate and complete, and better written. Of course, literacy is not one of Stewart’s strong points. He is an artist, a prominent sculptor (no chiseling jokes, please).
Stewie jealous? I find that hard to believe. As a rule, secure, successful people aren’t jealous. I’ve always thought of Stewie as successful. However, successful people usually have discretionary income to spend as they please. Hmmmmmm! I made most of my coin money by saving and selling baseball cards.
It may well be true that all of my Lincoln sets would rank higher in the registry than his. So what? Sometime the mystery is better than the solution. In any case, that would not be a big deal for me! Also, I like Stewie. Even if I could do so, wouldn’t it be a cruel thing to deprive him of one of the greater glories in his life?
But, then again ... just maybe ... one of these days.
Gerry and Stewart I have personally met both of you.I was and still am impressed with your collecting dedication to the Lincoln Cent.I only wish I had the funds to collect as you do.I don't believe both of you together has influenced the prices realized for the Lincolns.There are just to many Lincoln collectors just like you,that are willing to spend what it takes to put together a high grade set.You two aren't the only bidders at these auctions.There has been flashes in the pan,I won't mention any names.You two are, in my mind "dedicated collectors".Your eye for great coins shows in your sets.As to dealers,we have all bought and sold coins through Andy and Schwewitz.So they aren't lap dogs IMHO.They are a means to an end.
Gerry and Stewart are dedicated and passionate collectors. The intensity with which they approach their pursuit sometimes spills over.
I have never met Gerry, but communicate with him fairly often via email. I have found him to be a very nice gentleman. Yes, when he wants a coin there isn't too much that going to stop that from happening. Does that affect the market? Yes. Does that make the market? No.
Stewart's a good guy as well. As a New Yorker (NYC), he's brash and speaks his mind. He's been dedicated to this area of numismatics for a long time and is a recognized expert. The last couple of years have produced dramatic changes in the Lincoln cent market. Occasionally, change leads to frustration. Stewart's goals are no longer unimpeded.
The main thing to remember is that this is should be fun. I know that when I found it frustrating dealing with the "who's who" of Lincoln cent collecting and all the secret alliances that needed massaging, I took a "time out". I took a three month break and it was refreshing.
I can tell you that Gerry and I are both having FUN. After totrally offending him BY CALLING HIM CHEAP......he reciprocated by offering to take me out to Lunch,Dinner or whatever.I publically will not call him cheap again if he follows through with his offer.
I have a hard time believing Gerry would sit at the same table as Stewart let alone pay for the meal. But what do I know, I only socialize with puppy dogs
Gee, I miss all the fun, intrigue and comaraderie of the Lincoln collectors.
I'll have to say, I never had an unpleasant experience during my foray into the world of Lincoln wheats. Despite all the high competition, one and all were very supportive and very helpful. I got wonderful coins and advice from both Stewart and Gerry, among many others. And Andy was a wonderful mentor, whose puppy-doggedness was only apparent to me in his loyalty and friendship.
jacktheknife
Posts: 1,547 ✭
Comments
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
RELLA
who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
twenty times.
David
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
I also love to go through rolls to find coins.
BST
MySlabbedCoins
rob.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Duh. You have a link Steve to your registry sets in your signature. Nice sets indeed!
This looks like one of the 1932 cents I sold for $550 before Gerry bought one for $5,000 out of a heritage auction.
Stewart
<< <i> You have a link Steve to your registry sets in your signature. Nice sets indeed! >>
Thanks,
I do own the complete Lincoln business strike set in uncirculated (except the 1922 plain in VF30). Most of my coins are just not worth sending in for grading. The missing expensive ones were body bagged. (1914S 4 times). I have a 5 coin order in to economy now which includes the 2004S from the proof set. The other 4 are business strikes for 1909,1911, 1925 and 1925D. We will see how many make it. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
This looks like one of the 1932 cents I sold for $550 before Gerry bought one for $5,000 out of a heritage auction.
Stewart
A voice from the past ... when Stewart not only was number one, but also the only one. I believe the appropriate descriptor is anachronism
Yes Gerry I am a disgruntled dinosaur.I can't buy Lincoln cents anymore.You are the KING !!!!
Stewart
MANOFCOINS,
That is what I was wondering as well. "Is this an error of some sort?" I am not sure how, though. It may just be a case of a couple of the "big hitters" doing "whatever it takes" to get the coin. I am pretty sure Lauren's Lincolns needs one as well as Bender. A couple of guys like that going toe to toe might be what we are seeing.
David,
Yep, think about it. You have a very clean nicely struck 32-P that is just as pleasing to look at for $200!
Stewart,
I have a database with records of sales of high end Lincolns from back in the late eighties to present. I didn't even record 32-P until 1994 because it was so inexpensive. I have two (67RD's) from that year selling for $300!
You say "It's all Gerry's fault" often, but I will guarantee you that Gerry is not a player on this coin. In fact, as you are well aware, Gerry's set is complete and he is really not a factor in these continually soaring prices. You are going to have to start saying "It's all Bickel's fault" or It's all Bender's fault".
Thanks Craig....Now we are all smarter
I know Gerry recently (6 months back) bought a 1937 d Lincoln cent for 12 or 13 Thousand dollars !!!!!
Jack - and you say Gerry is not a factor? Just ask Schwewitz or his puppy dog.Gerry is the "KING"
Gerry - Please don't collect Canadian small cents.
Stewart
I hope he's AKC certified.
O'K Stewart, you got me on that one. Yes, Gerry probably updates a coin now and then. I am just trying to point out that in most instances he is not in the mix. So clearly there are others that are sending these prices soaring. Andy joked with me before that a couple of years ago it was "The Tom & Gerry Show". Other than an occasional rerun, that show is pretty much over for this type of coin. Now, it's "The Bill and Bender" show and it doesn't look like this is a comedy series. Each episode is as serious as a heart attack.
Stewart recently bought a decent copy of the 1951 Lincoln in ms67 to improve his collection for the very fair price of $3,000. Good for him. However, almost four years ago I bought what has turned out to be a very high-end copy ago for $750. So it works both ways. Stewart too is a factor in that price inflation.
As an aside, I am glad that Stewart, as a recognized Lincoln authority, has come to the realization that there is some value in later-date Lincolns. Maybe one of these days he will finally buy a high-grade memorial from wondercoin. Ah, to be a fly on the wall for that transaction would be worth a lot.
Anyone who has been buying Lincolns for three or four or more years is naturally going to complain that they can’t get coins they may want for those prices that prevailed in the “good old days.” That’s the downside of price inflation. The upside is that what you have is worth a lot more, at least on paper. Some would like to have the latter without the former, but they can’t! Life isn’t always “more than fair.”
A couple of other loose ends:
(1) Stewart would love all of his fellow Lincoln collectors to start acquiring Canadian cents to boost prices in that market. Sorry to say “no way!” The attraction in what I collect is Lincoln and the upcoming anniversary, not copper per se. In addition, I love the Yankees. I could never root for the Blue Jays. U.S.A all the way!
(2) Everyone knows who Dave Schweitz is, but some may wonder who the puppy dog is that Stewart referred to. Without revealing any specific identity, I can tell you that from my experience, that dog is a “golden retriever!” However, I can understand that others may think of him as a “pit bull” because he has a sharp bite!
(3) Lastly, congratulations to Stewart on being number uno in all those PCGS Lincoln registry sets once again for this year. He is still the King and deserves it for being a diligent collector for just about 50 years.
That's a good deal! I'd buy one for $3000, if I could find one.
I will never buy a memorial cent from wondercoin.I never ever bought anything from him.IMO he is not a coin dealer but rather lawyer in the coin business.
BTW I will probably never do business with you golden retriever again.Its sad how he has turned out.
Stewart
Now, Andy S. is in Stew's "doghouse" too. I am sure Andy is losing as much sleep over it as I am.
Wondercoin
Thanks for the clarification, Gerry. I am kind of glad the bid wasn't $18,000!
Stewart,
I've been watching you comment on these boards for months now. You sound like a pathetic child who won't allow anyone else to play in his sandbox. Grow up or go play somewhere else. Are you a jealous dealer or collector?
The "puppy dog" you happen to mention and his friend are helping me slowly build a superb Lincoln/Indian set. Just wait, I'll register it AFTER I am finished.
I have no problem with Gerry or puppy backing up the market. I know at least they step up and put their money where they inhabit.
Mike
P.S. In case you haven't noticed, the market is much bigger than just you and Gerry.
Mike,
Welcome to the boards. That's the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread. The Lincoln cent series is very popular with a large number of collectors chasing high grade specimens. The rising prices can't be blamed on one or even a couple collectors.
Mike, why not post your set now. It's fun to watch new sets develop and travel up the standings. From my experience, it is also fun for the collector.
Welcome to the message boards.Perhaps you can come out of your closet and inform us of your vast knowledge of Lincoln cents.Your also welcome to play in EVERYBODYS sand box (as you call it) of collecting LIncoln cents.I am a collector of Lincoln cents,Indian cents etc.When can I expect you to finish your set?
Stewart
Sorry, I won't post my set until I'm done. I won't give anyone the satisfaction of ruining my surprise!
I collect for fun. My day job is crazy and stressful.
You guys sound scared-who cares? I just want to build the best set I can afford, and have fun. And to me the fun will be where I end up when I'm finished.
Mike
Relax Mike ! You've stated your a crazy collector.Your day job is crazy and stressful.This is the weekend.
Do you collect Lincoln varieties or are you just a straight up kind of guy ? Do you like red/brown coins or only red specimens?How did you get into coin collecting? Do you consider yourself a numismatist?
What do you know about Gerry besides he has VERY deep pockets,he's cheap(he'll invite you to dinner and offer you a bone to nibble on).Yes he does support the Lincoln cent market.IMO he is THE cause of modern Lincolns in the thirties and the forties selling for moon money.IMO he has created a bubble which will break.Did you know Gerry is a 75 year old stud with a young wife ? Bless him
I wonder how he would compete against Bob Dole ?Gerry also has a wonderful Lincoln cent collection with mint state,Proof,varieties,wheats and Memorials and even different die
states.When he wants a coin he will never back down.When he sells you a coin remember he always has better and you may be buying his mistake.He is definitely underhanded.And lastly his love of Lincoln cents is so great when his son was missing in the World Trade Center during 9-11 Lincoln Cents helped him through his difficult times.As a matter of fact his collection is named after his son.
The Thomas Irwin collection.
Me ? I'm a dinosaur or as Gerry called me an anachronism.I'm also broke which means I can't buy Jack anymore.No I'm not selling my coins.I have been collecting certified Lincolns since 1988 about the time of the inception of the grading service.I use to collect as a kid doing the Whitman coin album thing.I probably have less invested in my collection than Gerry has invested in his 1943 D cent.But then again his 1943 D cent is a numismatic treasure.
Stewart
No, I don't collect varieties. I'm a straight up kind of guy!
And yes, I DO love high grade RED coins!
Mike
Stewart, if you want to reload just sell me a couple of your type coins!
Stewie jealous? I find that hard to believe. As a rule, secure, successful people aren’t jealous. I’ve always thought of Stewie as successful. However, successful people usually have discretionary income to spend as they please. Hmmmmmm!
It may well be true that all of my Lincoln sets would rank higher in the registry than his. So what? Sometime the mystery is better than the solution. In any case, that would not be a big deal for me! Also, I like Stewie. Even if I could do so, wouldn’t it be a cruel thing to deprive him of one of the greater glories in his life?
But, then again ... just maybe ... one of these days.
I have personally met both of you.I was and still am impressed with your collecting dedication to the Lincoln Cent.I only wish I had the funds to collect as you do.I don't believe both of you together has influenced the prices realized for the Lincolns.There are just to many Lincoln collectors just like you,that are willing to spend what it takes to put together a high grade set.You two aren't the only bidders at these auctions.There has been flashes in the pan,I won't mention any names.You two are, in my mind "dedicated collectors".Your eye for great coins shows in your sets.As to dealers,we have all bought and sold coins through Andy and Schwewitz.So they aren't lap dogs IMHO.They are a means to an end.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Mike
Please pass the popcorn
Wow, my thread took on a dark new life.
Gerry and Stewart are dedicated and passionate collectors. The intensity with which they approach their pursuit sometimes spills over.
I have never met Gerry, but communicate with him fairly often via email. I have found him to be a very nice gentleman. Yes, when he wants a coin there isn't too much that going to stop that from happening. Does that affect the market? Yes. Does that make the market? No.
Stewart's a good guy as well. As a New Yorker (NYC), he's brash and speaks his mind. He's been dedicated to this area of numismatics for a long time and is a recognized expert. The last couple of years have produced dramatic changes in the Lincoln cent market. Occasionally, change leads to frustration. Stewart's goals are no longer unimpeded.
The main thing to remember is that this is should be fun. I know that when I found it frustrating dealing with the "who's who" of Lincoln cent collecting and all the secret alliances that needed massaging, I took a "time out". I took a three month break and it was refreshing.
So, let's get back to talking about Lincolns....
I can tell you that Gerry and I are both having FUN. After totrally offending him BY CALLING HIM CHEAP......he reciprocated by offering to take me out to Lunch,Dinner or whatever.I publically will not call him cheap again if he follows through with his offer.
Stewart
Send me all your unwanted doubles!!
Yes Jonesy, now if we could only get them displayed side by side!!!
I have so enjoyed this thread!
I'm occasionally out in NYC/New Jersey, can I go to lunch too? I'd love to meet Gerry.
Nice coin, too!
Katrina
I'll have to say, I never had an unpleasant experience during my foray into the world of Lincoln wheats. Despite all the high competition, one and all were very supportive and very helpful. I got wonderful coins and advice from both Stewart and Gerry, among many others. And Andy was a wonderful mentor, whose puppy-doggedness was only apparent to me in his loyalty and friendship.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...