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Walter Breen
Longacre
Posts: 16,717 ✭✭✭
I read a brief snipet that Walter Breen had some problems with the law and spent some time in prison. Does anyone have any further details or know where I can get more background? Thanks.
Always took candy from strangers
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
Didn't wanna get me no trade
Never want to be like papa
Working for the boss every night and day
--"Happy", by the Rolling Stones (1972)
0
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The Breen numbers from his Encyclopedia are widely used to attribute varieties of coins.
A troubled individual in his personal life, he died in prison in Chino, California after pleading guilty to child molestation. The numismatic community was greatly shocked by this turn of events.
He reportedly wrote or co-wrote Greek Love under the pseudonym J.Z. Eglinton. This book attempts to justify sexual relationships between adult men and young boys.
Walter was married to science fiction writer Marion Zimmer Bradley in 1964. They separated in 1979. She apparently had some knowledge of his personal inclinations.
BTW, one of my prized books is Breen's Encyclopedia that he signed for me in his traditional purple at the 1989 ANA.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
i have two of Breen's works, the Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins and the Encyclopedia of United States HalfCents which are both quite intense. the former accompanys me whenever i go "hunting" for coins and has paid back it's $75 price at least 100 fold to date. it's far-and-away the best investment i've made in the hobby.
al h.
How very true, it often happens that genius is accompanied by personal tragedies in people’s lives. Like keets my Breen book has been of great value to me in my collecting.
I also read somewhere that he graduated from Johns Hopkins University in something like 2 years so the guy was basicly a wonderkin. It's a real tragedy that he died when he did.
Well said!
Longacre, a google search turned up lots of info this has also been addressed on the CU and a search here will also tuen up info.
Separately, a conviction for child molestation is more than just a skeleton. If I were a judge, child molestors would never ever see the light of day. Up there with murder and rape, there should be no parole and no time for good behavior. These people are dangerous and ruin more than just the victims lives but that's a whole other thread.
K S
Dave
So, any ideas on why the other thread link that KlectorKid provides doesn't work? I read a thread about this awhile back and wanted to see if anything was added (assuming that this is the same thread). But now, it suddenly shows up with an error code and "not found" message. Anyone else have this problem?
Ken
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
As for his contributions to Numismatics, I use his work often and consider it valuable.
When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.
Thomas Paine
al h.
<< <i>If Breen was guilty of that which he plead guilty to, I hope his soul rots in Hell for all eternity. If any of you other guys have skeletons like this in your closet, I hope you join him as quickly as is possible.. >>
Absolutely correct!
I have another name for it. No matter what book he wrote or co-wrote doesn't excuse the fact that he has ruined the lives of all those children he abused.
I truly hope he is paying for his sins now. To have his name wiped from our consciousness would be a good start.
I cannot understand how anyone would still accept him because he was a great numismatist. Good riddance and may you burn in hell.
<< <i>I cannot understand how anyone would still accept him because he was a great numismatist. Good riddance and may you burn in hell. >>
I don't accept him as a human being for what he did. But I don't believe it invalidates his numismatic research. Are people accepting *him*, or are they accepting that his work still has value?
It seems like any time Breen's name comes up, pretty much anywhere, it winds up being a battle between those who still respect his *work* and those who feel that his personal foul-ups are so horrid that all the work is tainted, too.
peacockcoins
<< <i>Walter Breen was clearly troubled as judged by society's standards. >>
<< <i>if the truth were known about most of us and the skeletons hanging in our closets, who would be left standing?? >>
Keets, Keets, Keets (whom I always and forever admire about most everything)!
Are you inferring that predatory, serial and rationalized sexual exploitation of children is somehow a PC quible, conjured up by today's silly and overly-sensitive "society?" Are you inferring that we all have "skeletons" of this sort hidden away, and that it was just poor Walter's bad luck to have been discovered? Are you inferring that there was ever a time or an enlightened "society," where adults sexually gratifying themselves with children had no destructive effect?
Yes, Breen was brilliant and productive in his professional life, and he provided landmark research. But the destructiveness he wrought in peoples' lives overshadows any such contributions IMO.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
<< <i>Damn, I've always thought most coin dealers come from the same gene pool as child molestors. >>
<DUCKING HEAD>
<< <i> I don't accept him as a human being for what he did. But I don't believe it invalidates his numismatic research. Are people accepting *him*, or are they accepting that his work still has value?
It seems like any time Breen's name comes up, pretty much anywhere, it winds up being a battle between those who still respect his *work* and those who feel that his personal foul-ups are so horrid that all the work is tainted, too. >>
Don't forget, it's been shown that a portion of Breen's numismatic "research" was made up by him. Take what you read with a grain of salt.
Yes, much of his "research" is without known attribution and has been over time sufficiently brought into dispute.
I have also heard that he sold his numismatic judgement on a coin. I.e., if a coin was far rarer in PF than MS, and the designation was in difficult, one could have paid him for a favorable judgement written on a scratch paper and signed with his typical florid signature.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
His research and books are still among the best, in my opinion.
What a P.O.S. thing to say. grrrr.
the very least fully suppressed. This includes the nazi research in the concentration
camps. There is no need for anyone to have information which requires the murder of
the innocent to learn.
By the same token though saying that Breen's work is bad because of his destructive
and criminal acts is comparable to saying the work Werner Von Braun in rocketry should
be suppressed because it was used to bomb London. Taken to the extreme would re-
quire the dismantlement of our space program since it was largely based on his work.
<< <i>Research is tainted when it results in harm to people and should be destroyed or at
the very least fully suppressed. This includes the nazi research in the concentration
camps. There is no need for anyone to have information which requires the murder of
the innocent to learn. >>
I agree, and I was going to post this point earlier and expand on it, but since you did post it, I'll just expand.
I don't think there's any direct link between Breen's pedophilia and his research. Thus, I really don't find this a valid reason to dismiss Breen's work. If it's made up, fine. That's legit. If it's flat out wrong, fine. That's legit. But if there's no coupling between Breen's criminal behavior toward children and numismatic research, then it's hard for me to see how the research is fatally tainted *for that reason*. I just don't see how an unfortunate affinity for children, and a criminal inclination to act on it, has *anything* to do with his numismatic work.
Although I could never condone his actions, I hope that none of us are judged only by our worst character defects.
<< <i>Damn, I've always thought most coin dealers come from the same gene pool as child molestors. >>
I try not to get involved in any banter that is not coin related around here, but your statement was totally uncalled for and vulgar.
Eric
<< <i><< Damn, I've always thought most coin dealers come from the same gene pool as child molestors. >> >>
Well although Breen worked for dealers I would not really consider him to have been a dealer but more a collector and researcher. So I guess you would have to change your comment coin collectors and researchers come from the same gene pool as child molestors. And I guess since you are most likely a coin collector that would include you too. I'm boh a collector AND a researcher, I must have a double dose. (Explains my preference for petite small busted women.)
i use the big book almost daily,but i cant excuse his actions !
If you can't make the separation, then you will have trouble with a lot of famous people. Sheldon, of Penny Whimsey fame, for one, stole a lot of large cents from the ANA collection. The guy who wrote all of the Mater and Commander stories abandoned a sick wife and young children to run off with his mistress. Everybody has good and bad; some, a whole lot worse than others. Hitler was said to be kind to children; Aryan ones, one on one, anyway.
As for skeletons in closets, most people have done things, or thought things which would get them in serious trouble. As I said, I have zero tolerance for child molesters because they take advantage of the weak and helpless and ruin their lives -- hanging is too goo for them. But, if we are to judge a person's contribution to arts and sciences or literature or anything else, we should try to make the separation.
I had no idea (having been out of the hobby for the last 12 years) that he was a convicted pedophile. I am astonished and appalled. I pity the children he hurt. His contribution to numismatics is horribly tainted.
Dean
<< <i>A "troubled" person. Someone who enjoys sex with children is "troubled"?????????
I have another name for it. No matter what book he wrote or co-wrote doesn't excuse the fact that he has ruined the lives of all those children he abused.
I truly hope he is paying for his sins now. To have his name wiped from our consciousness would be a good start.
I cannot understand how anyone would still accept him because he was a great numismatist. Good riddance and may you burn in hell.
If the ugliness of his criminal acts were truly known by any of you, in detail, the beauty of his numismatic wisdom would be burried in shame. No amount of numismatic good will ever overcome his social evil.
Yes, Breen was brilliant and productive in his professional life, and he provided landmark research. But the destructiveness he wrought in peoples' lives overshadows any such contributions IMO. >>
while i don't disagree w/ any of these sentiments, the fact is that as flawed humans, you must take the good w/ the bad. you take the good for what it is, & you do what you can to prevent the bad from happening in the future. you CAN'T fix what's already happened.
breen had some good points, he had some points. are YOU any different???
K S
For what's it worth, here's a quote on Walter Breen from the late David Feigenbaum (another guy who knew just a little about numismatics).
I don't know if Walter Breen was a genius, but he certainly was the closest thing the coin world had to a guru. Walter was a real oddball. When I knew him, he kept his hair long and wild, wore a Hawaiian shirt and always had a backpack full of books, notes and paper. He would stroll the aisles of a large show in an absentminded way, usually surrounded by dealers or collectors wanting his opinion about some piece or other.
Walter wrote some great books and seemed to be an expert on not only all U.S. coinage, from colonial to proof gold, but also a student of coinage history. His masterwork was "The Encyclopedia of U.S. And Colonial Coinage." While far from perfect, it is by far the greatest single book on American coins. When I wrote my Barber books, the first thing I did was make a copy of the appropriate pages in his book and use them as a starting point.
Walter was acknowledged to be such an expert that his opinion carried a lot of weight. Especially if he put it in writing. If a dealer had a coin that might be a rare proof issue, he'd call it to Walter's attention and ask his opinion. The same for an obscure but scarce variety. Walter would examine it and, if he agreed, would pull out a piece of letterhead stationery from his backpack and, in a flourishing hand, write out his opinion. Usually with a few important sounding paragraphs to support his finding. He always wrote with a purple or pink magic marker and his letters were instantly recognizable.
The whole process rarely took more than 10 minutes. For writing the letter, Walter charged $100. Of course, if he didn't think it was the rarity the dealer thought it was, no letter would get written and there was no fee. The dealer would simply say "thank you." I have a feeling a letter was written most of the time.
I didn't know him well. Though I'm sure he recognized me, I doubt he remembered my name from show to show. We only asked him to render opinions a few times -- once for a group of 1893/2 dimes (he was the discoverer), and once for a 1906-D half "Presentation Piece" -- but I often watched him move around the bourse floor.
Walter got himself in trouble outside the coin industry, which landed him in prison (where he died) and ruined his reputation. Be that as it may, we coin collectors owe him our gratitude for his vast research contributions.
David Feigenbaum
Dave
http://apps.heritagecoin.com/features/numisarticles.php?id=225
Director of Numismatics
PCGS
If I am willing to molest children, then there is little else in the world that will prevent me from doing and saying as I please.
It's difficult to divorce the behavior of a person in different parts of their life as the conscience and ego cannot be physically split.