<< <i>In my years of collecting and doing shows, One thing has been very obvious,,, most dealers are armed and Strong armed Theft from Dealers is Rare. That being said,, most Large thefts occur away from the show from broken into trunks or stolen cases that were not attended properly. Very few times is the Thief seen, so the carrying of a firearm May protect the person but not necessarily the coins. >>
Dealers being followed after the close of a show seems to be the most common problem. If you are carrying coins you need a plan of exit. Very tough to do if you travel alone.
Jade: That would be the KEL-TEC P3AT in .380ACP . The slimmest and the lightest, and packs a powerful punch. Its the prefered backup of most lawenforcement. I have one and love it. Its about $300 new. I use Magtech hollowpoints in mine.
All this talk of guns. Just purchase a .50 Cal D-Eagle. It stops trucks. The downside with a .50 is, if anyone else (innocent bystander) is in the area, they may go down too.
What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
Using hollowpoints esp handloads is asking for trouble. First there is no guarantee they will expand as designed, and a smart lawyer will make you out to be an intentional murderer should it ever come to that. Use Gencors or the Glaser safety slugs.
<< <i>What's the best way to determine what the concealed weapons laws are in a person's own home state, as well as compatability with other state's laws? >>
I would suggest talking to the folks in your local gun shop. They should have information you need on the gun laws for your state and area and any reciprocities with other states.
I had an uncle who was a small time coin/gun dealer. At coin shows, he always had a gun on him. He only had a problem at a show once while he was loading up his coins in the parking lot. One guy came up to him looking for some easy money. All he had to do was show the gun and the guy took off.
Taurus Model 66 .357 Magnum, (patented 7-shooter, not a traditional 6-shooter) loaded with Super-X hollow points. Dead criminals are the only good criminals.
Really quite interesting. I don't know what most of you look like (I am sure I would be very scared if I did ) but a lot of the local dealers around here look like they get winded lifting a sandwich up to their mouths so I don't think, even with a gun, they would be that imposing
Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives? A firearm may prevent a non-violent crime from taking place but if the person is stalking you at all, and is after coins worth a good amount, do you think it is worth a possible shoot out for the coins?
Story is different if they are attacking you/family/friends...and I agree to go for the gun then, but if they want some coins, and they display a gun, well...... I would let them grab the coins and then pull the gun but I sure wouldn't pull a gun first.
And, from some of the stories of the robberies, doesn't sound like a gun would have done any good (people lifting briefcases when no one is looking (who ya gonna pull a gun on at the point? the whole hall of people?) or ripping coins out of a parked car when someone is stopped to use the facilities/grab lunch). So, what good for the gun have done?
<< <i>Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives? >>
This is the question that the perpetrator ought to be pondering, not the victim. As long as we give in to his type, roll over and play dead he will never ask "are your coins worth MY life."
<< <i>Really quite interesting. I don't know what most of you look like (I am sure I would be very scared if I did ) but a lot of the local dealers around here look like they get winded lifting a sandwich up to their mouths so I don't think, even with a gun, they would be that imposing
Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives? A firearm may prevent a non-violent crime from taking place but if the person is stalking you at all, and is after coins worth a good amount, do you think it is worth a possible shoot out for the coins?
Story is different if they are attacking you/family/friends...and I agree to go for the gun then, but if they want some coins, and they display a gun, well...... I would let them grab the coins and then pull the gun but I sure wouldn't pull a gun first.
And, from some of the stories of the robberies, doesn't sound like a gun would have done any good (people lifting briefcases when no one is looking (who ya gonna pull a gun on at the point? the whole hall of people?) or ripping coins out of a parked car when someone is stopped to use the facilities/grab lunch). So, what good for the gun have done? >>
This is a really good post as is Flaminio's right above it.
A gun should be considered a last resort or it just might get you killed. It should not give one a sense of power or invincibility or it will lead you into a situation that can only be solved through shooting.
I never carried a gun until a motorist approached my car with one in his hand. I just went ahead and ran the light and evacuated the area. Later I realized that if a car had been in front of me I might have been killed.
"The best soldier does not attack. The superior fighter succeeds without violence. The greatest conqueror wins without a struggle. The most successful manager leads without dictating. This is called intelligent nonaggressiveness. This is called mastery of men." Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King
Inspite of the above, it is still comforting to be packing when the SHTF.
Glocks (4) and Ruger Speed Six. Here in Can't Afford Ya, especially in LA, they are very hard on carrying and a permit is impossible unless you are a reserve cop, judge or some political bigwig -- besides, we have LOTS of metal detectors here.
Before you carry, legally or illegally, you need to take courses in how to handle situations, tactical firearms and the laws in your state. If you don't, you are a fool and you will make some criminal lawyer very happy with a big retainer to defend you (right or wrong). I took a weekend at a great place in Nevada (FRONTSIGHT), an hour and a half north of Vegas in Pahrump, and, if you don't do that first, you are throwing your rights away.
Second, you better not have a hot temper . . . there's lots of people doing life without parole who do.
Third, the Supreme Court has ducked the second amendment issue time and again. There are court that have bought it, but, as much as we can all read the language and agree that the framers of the constitution did not want only the bad guys to have guns, the law is funny about stuff like that. Don't bet on it.
Last, self-defense laws vary from state to state, as do carry laws. Get a pamphlet at your local gun shop and study study study.
Very Last, in an appropriate self-defense situation (best is at home at night), if attacked, I say, let them eat lead, lots and lots of it. We live in a nutso society where people get shot every day by people who could care less about what the law says and yet, somebody who is law abiding, gets hassled for having a gun. Beam me up Scotty if we can't get our heads back on right on this issue.
I have a CWP (Concealed weapons permit) and a Glock 40 Cal. but I never carry except when I am out camping, hiking or hunting. I just don't think that I want to escalate things. I do however live in a fairly safe area with little or no violence so this may be a factor.
I never carry except when I am out camping, hiking or hunting. I just don't think that I want to escalate things. Sound practice! Most gun owners do not know how to handle a gun and the liklihood of them hurting/killing an innocent is great. Also how many times do we hear about a kid accidentally shooting a friend/family member/self?
Where are all these dealers and collectors being held up at shows? The last few alleged rip offs I've read about here or in CW have been of the stealth kind. The biggest thefts have IMO been insider jobs. I think there is a little urban legend and paranoia flowing here. Does the average robber know the difference in value between a dirty ugly chain cent and a shiny DCAM Kennedy? That's why these alleged thefts are non violent sneaky insider jobs or just fraud.
As my favorite actor, Al Pacino, once said..... "My father taught me many things here. He taught me, 'Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.'" I think he got that from Sun Tzu in The Art of War.
<< <i>Taurus Model 66 .357 Magnum, (patented 7-shooter, not a traditional 6-shooter) loaded with Super-X hollow points. Dead criminals are the only good criminals. >>
A 357 magnum is a very poor choice for personel protection for many reasons. One it is too powerful- you miss your target the bullet could travel through walls, cars or even the body of the intended target. Two it is a very disorienting gun too shoot in close quarters or in the dark because of the recoil and muzzle flash. I am not too familiar with Taurus handguns but the model 66 is a long barrel also? If so that is even a poorer choice because of it being hard to put into action because of it's size and it also gives the assailant a nice handle to grab. The wait of carrying a large gun in a concealed position is not much fun either. mike
<< <i>Most gun owners do not know how to handle a gun and the liklihood of them hurting/killing an innocent is great. >>
What a crock. The usual drivel barfed up by gun-grabbers. The "liklihood" is exactly the opposite of that garbage. Check the facts, and not the phony statistics from HCI. I suppose you think that a slimeball is going to be more proficient than a dedicated law-abiding gun owner. Your assertion is laughable, pathetic and dead wrong.
I have over 1000 hours loged in at my local range www.antelopeclub.org and I have NRA certificates in most firearms disciplines. I agree with Russ, most firearms enthusiasts and responsible gunowners are all about safety, responsibility and accuracy.
A 357 magnum is a very poor choice for personel protection for many reasons. One it is too powerful- you miss your target the bullet could travel through walls, cars or even the body of the intended target. Two it is a very disorienting gun too shoot in close quarters or in the dark because of the recoil and muzzle flash. I am not too familiar with Taurus handguns but the model 66 is a long barrel also? If so that is even a poorer choice because of it being hard to put into action because of it's size and it also gives the assailant a nice handle to grab. The wait of carrying a large gun in a concealed position is not much fun either. mike
Thats always been my thinking also. Couldnt agree more on that. Same with the 44 mag. Its just too much for a carry-gun. WAY too dangerous to ANYONE within a few city blocks of one being fired.
I do prefer the large caliber myself but not the magnum weapons. 44 special or 45 long colt or ACP is plenty IMO. A .38 is a good carry caliber also. jm2c
Comments
<< <i>In my years of collecting and doing shows, One thing has been very obvious,,, most dealers are armed and Strong armed Theft from Dealers is Rare. That being said,, most Large thefts occur away from the show from broken into trunks or stolen cases that were not attended properly. Very few times is the Thief seen, so the carrying of a firearm May protect the person but not necessarily the coins. >>
Dealers being followed after the close of a show seems to be the most common problem. If you are carrying coins you need a plan of exit. Very tough to do if you travel alone.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Brian.
Brian,
What's the lightest weight, most compact hand gun that is of reasonable quality? (Something that would fit well in an ankle holster.)
Our eBay auctions - TRUE auctions: start at $0.01, no reserve, 30 day unconditional return privilege & free shipping!
That would be the KEL-TEC P3AT in .380ACP . The slimmest and the lightest, and packs a powerful punch. Its the prefered backup of most lawenforcement. I have one and love it. Its about $300 new. I use Magtech hollowpoints in mine.
40S&W - Glock 27
357Sig - Glock 33
All three are the same size and the same price and will be comfortable in an ankle holster (just depends on the caliber you prefer).
Glock 26 specs
<< <i>What's the best way to determine what the concealed weapons laws are in a person's own home state, as well as compatability with other state's laws? >>
I would suggest talking to the folks in your local gun shop. They should have information you need on the gun laws for your state and area and any reciprocities with other states.
FrederickCoinClub
and this is in the office:
there are a couple of others, one small enough to carry in my back pocket, though I rarely do
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I don't know what most of you look like (I am sure I would be very scared if I did
Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives?
A firearm may prevent a non-violent crime from taking place but if the person is stalking you at all, and is after coins worth a good amount, do you think it is worth a possible shoot out for the coins?
Story is different if they are attacking you/family/friends...and I agree to go for the gun then, but if they want some coins, and they display a gun, well......
I would let them grab the coins and then pull the gun but I sure wouldn't pull a gun first.
And, from some of the stories of the robberies, doesn't sound like a gun would have done any good (people lifting briefcases when no one is looking (who ya gonna pull a gun on at the point? the whole hall of people?) or ripping coins out of a parked car when someone is stopped to use the facilities/grab lunch).
So, what good for the gun have done?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>For home security, this is by the bed: >>
Baley has excellent taste in weaponry.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives? >>
This is the question that the perpetrator ought to be pondering, not the victim. As long as we give in to his type, roll over and play dead he will never ask "are your coins worth MY life."
<< <i>Really quite interesting.
I don't know what most of you look like (I am sure I would be very scared if I did
Seriously though, are your coins worth your lives?
A firearm may prevent a non-violent crime from taking place but if the person is stalking you at all, and is after coins worth a good amount, do you think it is worth a possible shoot out for the coins?
Story is different if they are attacking you/family/friends...and I agree to go for the gun then, but if they want some coins, and they display a gun, well......
I would let them grab the coins and then pull the gun but I sure wouldn't pull a gun first.
And, from some of the stories of the robberies, doesn't sound like a gun would have done any good (people lifting briefcases when no one is looking (who ya gonna pull a gun on at the point? the whole hall of people?) or ripping coins out of a parked car when someone is stopped to use the facilities/grab lunch).
So, what good for the gun have done? >>
This is a really good post as is Flaminio's right above it.
A gun should be considered a last resort or it just might get you killed. It should
not give one a sense of power or invincibility or it will lead you into a situation that
can only be solved through shooting.
I never carried a gun until a motorist approached my car with one in his hand. I just
went ahead and ran the light and evacuated the area. Later I realized that if a car
had been in front of me I might have been killed.
I am going to guess that you now have one (or two) firearms in your car.
Lao-Tsu, Tao Teh King
Inspite of the above, it is still comforting to be packing when the SHTF.
I agree, 9/10 robberies are foiled just by brandishing a gun and not firing it. An excellent observation.
Before you carry, legally or illegally, you need to take courses in how to handle situations, tactical firearms and the laws in your state. If you don't, you are a fool and you will make some criminal lawyer very happy with a big retainer to defend you (right or wrong). I took a weekend at a great place in Nevada (FRONTSIGHT), an hour and a half north of Vegas in Pahrump, and, if you don't do that first, you are throwing your rights away.
Second, you better not have a hot temper . . . there's lots of people doing life without parole who do.
Third, the Supreme Court has ducked the second amendment issue time and again. There are court that have bought it, but, as much as we can all read the language and agree that the framers of the constitution did not want only the bad guys to have guns, the law is funny about stuff like that. Don't bet on it.
Last, self-defense laws vary from state to state, as do carry laws. Get a pamphlet at your local gun shop and study study study.
Very Last, in an appropriate self-defense situation (best is at home at night), if attacked, I say, let them eat lead, lots and lots of it. We live in a nutso society where people get shot every day by people who could care less about what the law says and yet, somebody who is law abiding, gets hassled for having a gun. Beam me up Scotty if we can't get our heads back on right on this issue.
Sound practice! Most gun owners do not know how to handle a gun and the liklihood of them hurting/killing an innocent is great. Also how many times do we hear about a kid accidentally shooting a friend/family member/self?
Where are all these dealers and collectors being held up at shows? The last few alleged rip offs I've read about here or in CW have been of the stealth kind. The biggest thefts have IMO been insider jobs. I think there is a little urban legend and paranoia flowing here. Does the average robber know the difference in value between a dirty ugly chain cent and a shiny DCAM Kennedy? That's why these alleged thefts are non violent sneaky insider jobs or just fraud.
As my favorite actor, Al Pacino, once said..... "My father taught me many things here. He taught me, 'Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer.'" I think he got that from Sun Tzu in The Art of War.
<< <i>Taurus Model 66 .357 Magnum, (patented 7-shooter, not a traditional 6-shooter) loaded with Super-X hollow points. Dead criminals are the only good criminals. >>
A 357 magnum is a very poor choice for personel protection for many reasons. One it is too powerful- you miss your target the bullet could travel through walls, cars or even the body of the intended target. Two it is a very disorienting gun too shoot in close quarters or in the dark because of the recoil and muzzle flash. I am not too familiar with Taurus handguns but the model 66 is a long barrel also? If so that is even a poorer choice because of it being hard to put into action because of it's size and it also gives the assailant a nice handle to grab. The wait of carrying a large gun in a concealed position is not much fun either. mike
<< <i>Most gun owners do not know how to handle a gun and the liklihood of them hurting/killing an innocent is great. >>
What a crock. The usual drivel barfed up by gun-grabbers. The "liklihood" is exactly the opposite of that garbage. Check the facts, and not the phony statistics from HCI. I suppose you think that a slimeball is going to be more proficient than a dedicated law-abiding gun owner. Your assertion is laughable, pathetic and dead wrong.
Russ, NCNE
Oh, sorry about that dear.
Camelot
and I have NRA certificates in most firearms disciplines.
I agree with Russ, most firearms enthusiasts and responsible gunowners are all about safety, responsibility and accuracy.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Thats always been my thinking also. Couldnt agree more on that.
Same with the 44 mag. Its just too much for a carry-gun. WAY too dangerous to ANYONE within a few city blocks
of one being fired.
I do prefer the large caliber myself but not the magnum weapons.
44 special or 45 long colt or ACP is plenty IMO. A .38 is a good carry caliber also.
jm2c