The Dope on Lance's Armstrong's Dope
Scumbi
Posts: 268 ✭
in Sports Talk
I caught some expose' this morning giving the evidence surrounding his possible use of banned substances. The argument was very convincing right down to bruises he covered with make-up on his upper arm. Supposedly, this is where you inject the stuff.
Does anybody have further knowledge of the situation? This seems like a major story. One of the most respected humans of our time is on the edge of becoming one of the biggest scumbags. It's an interesting blanket statement about what lengths athletes will go to today to win. There doesn't seem to be any regard for the rules. How can you go back and erase 5 Tour de France races? It would be a shame if cycling's hero actually caused the downfall of the whole sport.
Best,
S.
Does anybody have further knowledge of the situation? This seems like a major story. One of the most respected humans of our time is on the edge of becoming one of the biggest scumbags. It's an interesting blanket statement about what lengths athletes will go to today to win. There doesn't seem to be any regard for the rules. How can you go back and erase 5 Tour de France races? It would be a shame if cycling's hero actually caused the downfall of the whole sport.
Best,
S.
0
Comments
if there was only one golf tournament every year, and Tiger happened to win it, would he ever be mentioned as a possible "athlete of the year?" how about boxers, who fight maybe 2 or 3 times a year, tops. why don't they ever get mentioned?
Goodrid - I differ slightly in part from your opinion. Some sports are highly specialized....90% training and 10% execution when the major events/paydays occur. There have been many a boxer recognized as candidates for "Athelete of the Year" basis 2 or 3 events - Ali, Leonard, Hagler come to mind. I see your point on golf, as there are more events, but no doubt Woods, Nicklaus, Palmer, Trevino, Snead and Jones got their due as major atheletes.
don't exactly know what is invloved in a race like this then you need to check it out!
I can bet you that this is just some story that the rotten french made up. Lance owns them and they
hate that, they even boo him!!!
When is the last time you heard of a cancer survivor getting booed? Only the french cowards! I hope Lance
freakin wins every year, drugs or not who cares...its ok in baseball right?
They should rename it Tour de Lance!
America Rules! Bring anyone one hope Lance!
Kevin
I agree 200% with goodriddance. The man just races 1 time a year. Greats like Merckx, Hinault, etc. raced in competition for a whole year, even during winter. This is just one race, he has a great team to support him & to guide him through the mountains and has to give everything he's got for only 10 km at the end of a race.
Personal Collection
<< <i>joestalin- what do you really know about cycling anyways? I bet you've never even seen a racing bike in real life. Just because he's american doesn't mean he's God, because believe me, he ain't.
I agree 200% with goodriddance. The man just races 1 time a year. Greats like Merckx, Hinault, etc. raced in competition for a whole year, even during winter. This is just one race, he has a great team to support him & to guide him through the mountains and has to give everything he's got for only 10 km at the end of a race. >>
Ignorance is bliss and in this case, there is no exception. In recent years, Lance has raced in only the Tour, but in previous years, he has raced in numerous races throughoout the year. His prep for tge following year begins shortly after the Tour ends. The tour is grueling and some cars cannot complete the entire course!! What he has done is wonderful and should serve as an inspiration to all. Just because some idi*ts in France want to bring down an American on false accusations should not diminish his name. And if you support it, then please, go live in France as well.
And the comment about him not being recognized as a top male athlete is stupid. What about the folks who train for the Iron Man in Hawaii. They usually race once a year and spend most of the year preparing for that as well. So they are not athletes now, too? Yeah, just give some fat azz golfers a chance to play in several events and now they are athletes. Too funny.
And yes, Lance is not God, but he's an outstanding athlete. I may not even like him as a person, but he's good at what he does.
Not directly addressed to you, Undertaker.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
These guys are riding up the sides of mountains! Ive hiked up mountains and I have rode a bike and can
tell you that together they are tough, not to mention doing this for days!
Again, this guy is doing something that most of us couldn't do in 20 years! This guy enters and wins
EVERY year! france and the netherlands can't do anything about it! Just sit and wait again for
Germany to knock on your door....we might have to wait 100 days or so before we bail you all out
again!
Admit it, Lance owns you all, you have one big race a year, the other mean squat and you know it. Lance
comes and rides up and down your sissy mountains and wins it all!
Thanks
JS
<< <i>One of those rare instances that I agree with joestalin. >>
as usual, i agree with joestalin!
<< <i>This guy enters and wins EVERY year!
JS >>
i know. he enters and wins one contest a year. that was my whole point. how can you judge greatness with such a small sample size? i am not trying to knock the man at all, i know the TDF is a grueling event, and i know how heroic it is that he overcame cancer.
scenario- what about an Olympian that enters only one event, and wins it? sure, he trained for a good 3+ years, he faced the best competition in the world, and he won. ONE event. i don't see those guys getting mentioned in any "athlete of the year" debates.
in my opinion, "athlete of the year" means they were the most dominant at their sport, and they were more dominant than anyone else in other sports. Armstrong is the most dominant in his sport one time every year.
<< <i>I knew the euro trash would show up soon! What do I know about cycling??? What do you have to know?
These guys are riding up the sides of mountains! Ive hiked up mountains and I have rode a bike and can
tell you that together they are tough, not to mention doing this for days!
Again, this guy is doing something that most of us couldn't do in 20 years! This guy enters and wins
EVERY year! france and the netherlands can't do anything about it! Just sit and wait again for
Germany to knock on your door....we might have to wait 100 days or so before we bail you all out
again!
Admit it, Lance owns you all, you have one big race a year, the other mean squat and you know it. Lance
comes and rides up and down your sissy mountains and wins it all!
Thanks
JS >>
Thanks for referring to me as euro trash, airhead.
What do you have to know about baseball? Some fat guys swinging a wooden stick only to hit a leather ball. WOW!
Every sports is something simple, basketball is putting a ball through a hoop, but you have to take notice of so many other things and cycling isn't any different.
Your post is so full of stupidity I'm not even gonna start responding to all the different points but I must say you COMPLETELY proved your ignorance, as you do time and again.
Personal Collection
<< <i>Ignorance is bliss and in this case, there is no exception. In recent years, Lance has raced in only the Tour, but in previous years, he has raced in numerous races throughoout the year. His prep for tge following year begins shortly after the Tour ends. The tour is grueling and some cars cannot complete the entire course!! What he has done is wonderful and should serve as an inspiration to all. Just because some idi*ts in France want to bring down an American on false accusations should not diminish his name. And if you support it, then please, go live in France as well.
And the comment about him not being recognized as a top male athlete is stupid. What about the folks who train for the Iron Man in Hawaii. They usually race once a year and spend most of the year preparing for that as well. So they are not athletes now, too? Yeah, just give some fat azz golfers a chance to play in several events and now they are athletes. Too funny.
And yes, Lance is not God, but he's an outstanding athlete. I may not even like him as a person, but he's good at what he does.
Not directly addressed to you, Undertaker. >>
Yes, you all proved your ignorance (except goodriddance) in this thread. You see some American winning a highly marketed sports event you never even heard of untill last year and you immediately think he's the best ever. THINK before you preach your ignorance.
The Tour is grueling? The Tour was grueling 30 years ago, but again, 99% of you never even heard of cycling untill 5 years ago.
Personal Collection
all over there should be lucky that the guy is even in your country attracting people and money!
I love it when the french get mad, they just drop their sling shots and surrender!
Hey undertaker...leave your sling shot and pebbles on the ground, assume the postion..lance will be
by soon!
Thanks
JS
PS.Arrange the colors how every you want but it will always be red, white and blue in the end!
<< <i>actually 99% of us could give a crap about anything french until Lance went over there and kept winning it! You
all over there should be lucky that the guy is even in your country attracting people and money!
I love it when the french get mad, they just drop their sling shots and surrender!
Hey undertaker...leave your sling shot and pebbles on the ground, assume the postion..lance will be
by soon!
Thanks
JS
PS.Arrange the colors how every you want but it will always be red, white and blue in the end! >>
Oh so that's why you're getting your panties all wet for.. you think I'm French? Sorry to disappoint you Joey, I'm Belgian.
I'll be laughing my ass off when they do catch him for using banned substances. Even Greg Lemond is accusing him (a former US cyclist for the ignorant on the board *cough* JS *cough*).
Personal Collection
<< <i>actually 99% of us could give a crap about anything french until Lance went over there and kept winning it!
I love it when the french get mad, they just drop their sling shots and surrender! >>
hahaha, can't argue with that
I will admit that you all are slightly more useful than the french..you know with that red light district and
everything.!
Man just think if the German's rode tanks like Lance ride a bike...he would of conqured you guys in minutes!
JS
<< <i>actually 99% of us could give a crap about anything french until Lance went over there and kept winning it! >>
thats the best thing ive read all night.. i can go to bed now..
<< <i>
<< <i>actually 99% of us could give a crap about anything french until Lance went over there and kept winning it! You
all over there should be lucky that the guy is even in your country attracting people and money!
I love it when the french get mad, they just drop their sling shots and surrender!
Hey undertaker...leave your sling shot and pebbles on the ground, assume the postion..lance will be
by soon!
Thanks
JS
PS.Arrange the colors how every you want but it will always be red, white and blue in the end! >>
Oh so that's why you're getting your panties all wet for.. you think I'm French? Sorry to disappoint you Joey, I'm Belgian.
I'll be laughing my ass off when they do catch him for using banned substances. Even Greg Lemond is accusing him (a former US cyclist for the ignorant on the board *cough* JS *cough*). >>
Who cares if Greg Lemond is accusing him. Remember, if you become successful, people become jealous. If you become a failure, people ridicule you. If you become like everyone else, people ignore you. Greg dreams of being able to hold Lance's one testicle crotch in his hand. As of this writing, Lance has taken the yellow jersey and will wave good bye to all of the other lazy and jealous Europeans.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>Who cares if Greg Lemond is accusing him. Remember, if you become successful, people become jealous. If you become a failure, people ridicule you. If you become like everyone else, people ignore you. Greg dreams of being able to hold Lance's one testicle crotch in his hand. As of this writing, Lance has taken the yellow jersey and will wave good bye to all of the other lazy and jealous Europeans. >>
Hahaha your ignorance is hilarious.
Lazy & jealous Europeans? Why do you think Armstrong's mentor and team leader is belgian? Why do you think 90% of the US Postal staff is belgian/european? Because we UNDERSTAND cycling, unlike you retards who think you know a whole lot because you watch a 10 second recap every night.
Also JS, what does the war have to do with this? Pretty lame that you have to refer to an event that happened 50 years ago if you can't even counter anything I said about cycling because well.. YOU KNOW SQUAT.
Personal Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Who cares if Greg Lemond is accusing him. Remember, if you become successful, people become jealous. If you become a failure, people ridicule you. If you become like everyone else, people ignore you. Greg dreams of being able to hold Lance's one testicle crotch in his hand. As of this writing, Lance has taken the yellow jersey and will wave good bye to all of the other lazy and jealous Europeans. >>
Hahaha your ignorance is hilarious.
Lazy & jealous Europeans? Why do you think Armstrong's mentor and team leader is belgian? Why do you think 90% of the US Postal staff is belgian/european? Because we UNDERSTAND cycling, unlike you retards who think you know a whole lot because you watch a 10 second recap every night.
Also JS, what does the war have to do with this? Pretty lame that you have to refer to an event that happened 50 years ago if you can't even counter anything I said about cycling because well.. YOU KNOW SQUAT. >>
Fortunately, we have a 1 hour show devoted to the Tour every day and night in the US. This is a recent addition and I watch it very much. The tour is the greatest event in all of sports. Where else can you get so close to the stars and not pay a penny for it?
Hey Undertaker,
Would you like a shmoke und a pancake? A flapjack und a shigarette? A Shigar und a waffle? Pipe und a kipe? Bong und a blintz?
If the Belgians are so damn good, why is the closest competitor in 29th place? Also, after this year, there is no hope for the Belgians, because from what I have seen, the Italians are putting together some great riders!!
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>Hey Undertaker,
Would you like a shmoke und a pancake? A flapjack und a shigarette? A Shigar und a waffle? Pipe und a kipe? Bong und a blintz?
If the Belgians are so damn good, why is the closest competitor in 29th place? Also, after this year, there is no hope for the Belgians, because from what I have seen, the Italians are putting together some great riders!! >>
Hey dumbass,
Quit proving your ignorance and stupidity over and over again.
1) Is it so hard to actually read what someone posts? Too hard for ya?
Did I ever say we have good Tour cyclists at the moment? No, we have the best leaders. (Something Americans can't say if you know what I mean LOL)
2) Tour winners can pop up out of nowhere. IT'S JUST ONE RACE. Nobody expected Armstrong to win his first tour, yet he did. He wasn't a favorite at all.
3) Ever heard of Eddy Merckx? If you haven't I will stop posting on this thread.
4) If that first line was a weak impression of German, I hate to disappoint you but I speak Dutch. I also speak English, French and German and I can help myself in Spanish. How many languages do you speak?
Personal Collection
<< <i>Megatron, you are geting jipped on your tour coverage--we have live and rebroadcast coverage of the tour everyday, including 30 minute pre-race coverage and then 2 1/2 hours of the tour, recap specials, "The Lance Chronicles", specials about the tour fans, and even rest day coverage. All in all, with the rebroadcasts of the live coverage and all the specials, we have about 12 hours of the tour everyday. The channel we watch it on (in North Carolina) in OLN (Outdoor Life Network). You should contact your local cable provider to see why they do not offer this channel in your area. >>
I agree completely. Unfortunately, even if they had live coverage, I would have to be at work. At work, I followi it on the Internet and then get a recap at home.
Remember these Chuck Norris Facts
1. When Chuck Norris does a pushup, he isn't lifting himself up, he's pushing the Earth down
2. According to Einstein's theory of relativity, Chuck Norris can actually roundhouse kick you yesterday
3. There are no such things as lesbians, just women who have not yet met Chuck Norris
<< <i>
Would you like ... Bong und a blintz? >>
i dunno what a blintz is, but if its what i think it is, then yes..
<< <i>Also, JS... if you can't even counter anything I said about cycling because well.. YOU KNOW SQUAT. >>
like he said earlier, "..99% of us could give a crap about anything french until Lance went over there and kept winning it!"
One of my favorite beers.
<< <i>Hey, guys, stop attacking the Belgians. Don't forget Stella Artois.
Among others.
Personal Collection
<< <i>Hey, guys, stop attacking the Belgians. Don't forget Stella Artois.
Undertaker is alright, in my book.. always has been.. i just disagree with his opinion on Lance Armstrong!
In the next day or two, French police may interrupt the world's most famous cycling race, the Tour de France, to arrest distributors of illegal drugs and perhaps those riders using them. "The critical days to plan a raid," says a cycling buff who has studied the underbelly of the sport, "are the evenings of July 20 and 21 and again on Friday evening, the 23rd. These evenings will be massive doping/recovery sessions for the top contenders and their teams, too. It will be a shell game. They will not use their hotel rooms. Where will the safe house be?"
The more important question, perhaps, is where will Lance Armstrong be? While the American's pursuit of an unprecedented sixth straight victory is the story of this Tour de France, the subplot deals with accusations that in the past, if not now, he has used performance-enhancing drugs.
Suddenly, sport is a spy novel.
The latest chapter began on July 8, 1998. A Peugeot 306, using back roads from Switzerland through Belgium, was stopped at the French border. Searching the car, four customs officers found 234 doses of erythropoietin (EPO), 80 flasks of human growth hormone, 160 capsules of testosterone, 60 pills of a blood-thinning agent, and a three-week supply for nine riders of "Belgium Mix," a stay-up-all-night cocktail of cocaine, heroin, caffeine and corticosteroids. There were also syringes and boxes of intravenous drips.
The Peugeot's driver was Willy Voet, long famous in Europe for his connection to a top cycling team, Festina; as a soigneur, he tended riders' every need, which apparently included drugs used in violation of cycling's rules.
French police made mass arrests that changed the face of world cycling. But the cold truth is, illegal drugs didn't go away. "Six years on from the scandal of 1998," wrote David Walsh of London's Sunday Times, "it is sobering to be back at the same point, knowing that it is unsafe to believe in what you are seeing." Walsh quoted a former pro rider saying, "Nothing has changed except that the culture of doping has just become more sophisticated."
A century ago, Tour de France riders looked for an edge and found it, they believed, in small amounts, very small amounts, of a substance that stimulated the central nervous system. That substance was strychnine, of which more than a small amount produced not stimulation but death.
Today, human nature holding steady, death is yet the unseen rider in world-class cycling. Those sports fans caught up in stick-and-ball games might have missed the cycling news of the past 18 months. From January 11, 2003, to June 30, 2004, nine top cyclists died of heart failure. Eight of the deaths occurred at rest, one in a dentist's office.
On Valentine's Day this year, alone in a hotel on his nation's Adriatic Coast, a man who had once been an Italian national hero, Marco Pantani, died in his sleep. He won the 1998 Tour de France, the last man to win before Armstrong's streak. But in 1999 Pantani was disqualified from Italy's great race, the Giro di Italia, for exceeding cycling's allowable red blood cell count.
Cocaine was found in Pantani at autopsy, and his death was ruled the result of a cocaine overdose, but some cyclists believe he died as the other eight did -- of heart failure prompted by use of EPO. The drug produces so many oxygen-carrying red blood cells that blood becomes syrupy; as the athlete's over-trained heart slows at rest to maybe 30 beats per minute, it cannot move the thickened blood. The heart stops. Pantani was 34 years old.
EPO is epidemic, its latest casualty the Scotsman David Millar, who never had tested positive and on May 6 threatened London's Sunday Times with a libel suit if it printed accusations of drug use. Yet on July 1 he admitted in court to using EPO three times. Disqualified from the Tour de France, he resigned from the Great Britain Olympic team.
Strangely, at 21 race stages, the Tour de France tests less than one percent of riders for EPO. Or maybe turning a blind eye to the doping is good business; it wouldn't be much of a show if all the riders were disqualified. The depth of the problem is apparent to Tom Morris, a veteran cyclist on a top amateur team and mentor to juniors in Orinda, Calif.
He deplores cycling's dark news, "the whole injection, IV slow drag, masking, saline feeding, synthetic human-and-horse hormone game." It's all part of "trauma doping," a witch's brew of Lord knows what given after exercise to help athletes recover in a day rather than three.
From parents of his junior riders, Morris hears the drug question.
"They see television, 'Hey, Tour de France, whatya think about Lance Armstrong; isn't that great?' and they have fantasies about the sport," the coach says.
"What we're seeing on television is not the same thing we're doing. Yeah, they're on pretty much the exact same bicycles. The tires are the same, the wheels, the pedals. And the way we race the bikes is pretty similar.
"But, you know, we're not going to be injecting anybody with synthetic hormones. And it puts me in an awkward position because when parents ask, 'Do you think those guys are taking drugs?' my answer is, 'Yes, I do.' "
What do the parents say then?
"They think I'm crazy."
He isn't.
Up the side of the Alps...Lance vs the French Police....Ill put 50K on Lance!
JS