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Has Superior blew past Heritage as the #1 auctioneer of High End PCGS Registry Sets ?

STEWARTBLAYNUMISSTEWARTBLAYNUMIS Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
in PCGS Set Registry Forum

It seems that since Steve Deeds joined Bowers and Merena Auctions that they are auctioning more high end top PCGS Registry sets.At the ANA they will be auctioning the Klingensmith Lincoln collection,Bad Boys Bail Bonds Proof Lincoln Cent Set,Carl Womack Buffalo Nickel Collection and perhaps a few others.Does anyone have any insights into this phenomena.

Stewart

Comments

  • RELLARELLA Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
    Stewart,

    Steve Deeds is at Bowers and Merena these days.

    RELLA
    Do not fall into the error of the artisan
    who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
    while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
    twenty times.
  • RELLARELLA Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
    Seems like the big sets that they have coming up for auction are mostly copper and nickel type. image

    RELLA
    Do not fall into the error of the artisan
    who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
    while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
    twenty times.
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭


    Stewart,

    I think you mean "Has B & M blown past Heritage...?" That's a tough question. I certainly think that Heritage is losing market share, that's for sure. ANR is coming on strong, Deeds move to B&M can only help them, but Heritage is still chugging along. Overall, my impression is that the playing field is leveling for collectors wishing to liquidate their holdings.
  • clackamasclackamas Posts: 5,615 ✭
    Heritage sucks if you are selling coins, IMO. It is now a 45 day wait to get your money. 30 days was long but tolerable, 45 is greed. They have become lazy with descriptions and often screw up lots. I have had more than a few screwed up by them and this has cost me money. I see why other set owners are turning away from them. I also see where the registry has provided us with a way to deal directly with the buyers and reduced the need to go to an auction house. IMO of course.
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,162 ✭✭✭✭✭
    IMO, if B&M can resolve the picture quality issue they will do quite well under Steve Deeds' direction. ANR is doing superbly!
    Early Dollar Set
  • jacktheknifejacktheknife Posts: 1,547 ✭


    B & M does have picture quality issues to resolve, but Heritage has the furthest to go of any of the big auction houses.
  • PQpeacePQpeace Posts: 4,799 ✭✭✭
    Yes..Superior is # 1 in my book.
    That is why they are selling all my dollar sets at the PRE-ANA sale,
    Larry
    Larry Shapiro Rare Coins - LSRC
    POB 854
    Temecula CA 92593
    310-541-7222 office
    310-710-2869 cell
    www.LSRarecoins.com
    Larry@LSRarecoins.com

    PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
    Baltimore July 14-17
    Chicago August 11-15
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
    Auction Companies by Growth* - 2003 Increase
    1. SUPERIOR GALLERIES 94.8%
    2. STACK'S 49%
    3. HERITAGE RARE COIN GALLERIES 40.7%
    4. AMERICAN NUMISMATIC RARITIES 18.9%
    5. IRA & LARRY GOLDBERG 2%
    6. BOWERS & MERENA 0.7%
    *Based on each company's internet-posted prices realized from 2003 for full catalog format auctions. All numbers rounded to nearest tenth of one percent. (from Superior's website)

    Isolated '03 numbers are probably do in part to mergers & acquisitions. I am sure that the 2004 numbers are a bit different.

  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,980 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I believe J. Halperin's/Heritage's vision of revealing consignor's reserves (started I believe around 3/04) may have led to some large collections going elsewhere in the short run. IMHO, bidders now have a nice advantage in a Heritage sale by knowing exactly what the consignor reserved a lot for and whether the current price level is merely an unmet reserve. But, Heritage appears to be "banking" on the notion that with bidders getting even more comfortable with bidding in their sales, the result, in the long term, will be even higher prices for their consignors and increased business for Heritage. I wouldn't count Heritage out just yet on achieving this objective either. And, yes, S. Deeds is getting very aggressive with steering the B&M vessel as well - and he is a solid veteran who will get his share of great consignments as well, no doubt. Easy to work with as well.

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • bullseyebullseye Posts: 178
    Its all about relationships. I let Deeds sell some of my coins last year. The results were incredible!

    Heritage didn't do me any favors-and their fees are way too high.

    In the end, Heritage will continue to get more Registry sets because of their sheer size and advertising might.
  • LakesammmanLakesammman Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Deeds has put Bowers back on the map but they have a long way to #1. I would never have considered using them post-DB's departure, but now would. The new question is, will Superior survive??
    "My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose.
  • orevilleoreville Posts: 12,024 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Quite frankly I was dismayed with just one Bowers & Merena's lot description and believe the buyer overpaid by at least 20% due to the over-exuberance of B&M's description of the coin. Even after I brought it to their attention, they did nothing to correct the problem.

    It was quite a significant error on their part.

    I would be thrilled to be a seller of coins with B&M but would be scared to death to buy anything through their auctions!
    A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
  • RELLARELLA Posts: 961 ✭✭✭
    Oreville, wouldn't you agree that liberal doses of "poetic license" in auction descriptions is at the present time an industry-wide issue?

    RELLA
    Do not fall into the error of the artisan
    who boasts of twenty years experience in his craft
    while in fact he has had only one year of experience...
    twenty times.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    For the coins I just recently auctioned at Heritage it didn't hurt that the reserve was listed. In fact, in my mind, it helped free up bidders minds that they could legitimately win the coin rather than competing agains a phantom reserve bid. Don't look for % comissions to be dropped but rather it's up to the seller to negotiate down from the standard fees. The same goes for payment. No one says you have to live with 45 days payment, you could negotiate a 30 day payment if your coin sold to the floor for example.
    It all depends on what you negotiate.

    Superior's sleazy advertising just turns me off. I wouldn't consign to them unless they beat the other commisions by at least a few percent. I just don't feel comfortable with their whole scene. Steve Deeds made a good move imo.

    roadrunner
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • MrPlatinumMrPlatinum Posts: 461
    <<<<<Heritage is losing market share>>>>>>>>


    Superior has always been above board with me and my coins, too bad Steve left.

    I wish I could say the same about Heritage, but I cant they lost 2 POP 1 coins and mishandled a 3rd that cost me over $14k (without juice).


    Now you tell me would I ever use Haritage? Hell NO If I wanted a coin bad enough I would find someone bigger than me to buy it on my behalf, or maybe I just dont need it bad enough.


  • lloydmincylloydmincy Posts: 1,861 ✭
    Deeds and B&M may be giving away the store for the deals, you know. Bottom, line, I believe the seller is going to go for the BEST DEAL for themselves. If B & M gives you 106% as the seller, vs. 103% at Heritage, and 105% at ANR, knowing ANR's pictures are great, wouldn't you still go for the 107%???

    If Heritage "seems" to be losing market share, do you not think they will figure it out how to win the consignor's? I think Heritage is like the giant ship that takes too long to turn. They better keep in touch with the competition.

    About the reserves posted. WOW. ABSOLUTELY benefits the buyer, NEVER the seller. What if everyone bid CLOSE to the reserve, and then decided not to bid more. ??? The auction sight and the consignor LOSES, because the coin didnt sell. The buyer could then contact (you can find anyone) the consignor, and buy it directly, leaving the auction house without any commission!!! Furthermore, if the reserve was NOT posted in any way, (Like most major auction houses in the world), the consignor could make quite a bit if a couple bidders were really going at it. In a hot market, maybe this doesnt matter much, but it could cut out a sale for the auction house, and the consignor. I WOULDNT WANT ANYONE TO KNOW MY RESERVE. IF IT DOESNT HIT MY RESERVE, IT IS NO BUYER'S BUSINESS WHAT I WANTED. IT IS STILL MINE.
    The Accumulator - Dark Lloyd of the Sith

    image
  • MrPlatinumMrPlatinum Posts: 461
    I'm just the little guy working for peanuts.... image
  • bullseyebullseye Posts: 178
    I have coins in this recent Heritage sale. I had most of my reserves hit early. The only problem, that seemed to be where the bidding died.

    I don't really know if that helped me get the coins sold or not. If that is the case, then I don't think showing the reserves is bad. If a coin did not sell, its still has that stigma. I don't think having people knowing the reserve makes it any worse.

    Mike
  • PistareenPistareen Posts: 1,505 ✭✭✭
    Auction Companies by Growth* - 2003 Increase
    1. SUPERIOR GALLERIES 94.8%
    2. STACK'S 49%
    3. HERITAGE RARE COIN GALLERIES 40.7%
    4. AMERICAN NUMISMATIC RARITIES 18.9%
    5. IRA & LARRY GOLDBERG 2%
    6. BOWERS & MERENA 0.7%
    *Based on each company's internet-posted prices realized from 2003 for full catalog format auctions. All numbers rounded to nearest tenth of one percent. (from Superior's website)

    I'm not sure how this info was tabulated, but how can a company grow 18.9% in the first year of its existence, i.e. when one year earlier it did not exist at all? ANR was founded in February/March 2003, so I'd like to know what baseline number was used in this statistical analysis.
    John Kraljevich Americana
    Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
  • RegistryCoinRegistryCoin Posts: 5,117 ✭✭✭✭
    Very good question/eye for detail.
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