Newest MERC 1945 FULL BAND (FB) in the stable.

marcmoish · July 14, 2004 12:20PM

Here is my newest addition a one tough 1945-P in FULL BANDS. Graded MS-65FB and still in a 2nd generation holder. The bands are as split as they will ever get. I have seen only a handful of FB graded Merc's and I've never been overly thrilled with the "call" ! This particular example is probably the finest 65FB I've ever seen and most likely a LOCK 66

The fields are pristine - the strike is super - immaculate fields and great eye appeal to boot.

For newbies and others the 1945 mercury Dime in FB "Full Bands" is a truly RARE find. Towards the end of World War II - actually in the final year 1945 it seems the mint was totally careless with quality control and the huge mintage of some 160 million dimes are mostly found with poor strikes especially noticeable within the important middle bands area (middle of the Fasces on reverse). They kepy using the dies over and over...
The need to only buy certified examples is compounded by the fact a number of forgeries exist including bands cut with a razor expertly and 1945-D FB's with the D mintmark conveniently "deleted" .

I'd like to publicly thank Mike Printz (Larry Whitlow LTD) for keeping a sharp eye out for me and purchasing this dime recently on my behalf. Mike is truly the real deal

Marc

MrEureka · July 14, 2004 12:23PM

This particular example if probably the finest 65 I've ever seen and most likely a LOCK 66

You're crackin' it?

Fairlaneman · July 14, 2004 12:33PM

Way,Way,WAY extremely

. Marc congratulations and that is one Hell of a Nice Looking 45P. All Merc collectors will appreciate the coin you have obtained.

Take Care.

Ken

MFH · July 14, 2004 12:35PM

Very nice Mercury ! Mike Printz sure does have a sharp eye !

Congrats !

jdimmick · July 14, 2004 1:00PM

Congrats as well,

One of the nicest FB 45's I have seen, great eye-appeal!!!!!!!!!!!

jim

Merc · July 14, 2004 1:39PM

Yes it is a nice MS65 FB dime. However, there is still some stike weakness in the hairline on the obverse. It seems the mint had some quality control problems and just struck too many dimes per die.

oreville · July 14, 2004 2:04PM

Nice looking dime indeed. Not too many of them for sure!

This is the only reported sale of a 1945-P dime in MS-65FB since mine was sold at Heritage last November.

jom · July 14, 2004 3:26PM

Great coin! It truly is a Full STRIKE...not just the bands. Pretty coin color and luster to the coin too.

jom

Fairlaneman · July 14, 2004 4:08PM

<< <i>However, there is still some stike weakness in the hairline on the obverse. It seems the mint had some quality control problems and just struck too many dimes per die. >>

Ever think it might be the camera angle. I see your Proof Dime is Extremely Weak in the Hair. Bet its the camera angle though. Some have to find fault with everything. Show us a better 65FB 45P. Geez....

TAP444 · July 14, 2004 4:35PM

Ken,
I will have to go to the bank to show you a equal 45p 65fb
dime, I also bought mine from Mike and he sells very nice mercs

but that one is super nice, congrats to Marc on a great addition to his set
Tim

PQpeace · July 14, 2004 4:45PM

Very nice find !

After looking at it again..
AWESOME FIND !!!!!!!!!!

Congrats

wingedliberty · July 14, 2004 8:54PM

Thats a great looking 45, Good job Marc. I love the bands. Patience and waiting for quality sure paid off.

dorkkarl · July 14, 2004 9:13PM

for years (pre-slabs), i was confident i could cherry pick a fb 1945. never did.

K S

coinfreak499 · July 14, 2004 11:09PM

Very nice 45!

oreville · July 15, 2004 12:07AM

To add to marc's comment about why the 1945 merc dimes were so poor in quality;

FDR passed away in April 1945 and immediately the mint officials "knew" that the new Roosie dimes were going to be issued.

As a result, the mint officials and employees were expecting the new dies to arrive and personnel were working on the new dimes instead of re-enhancing the old dies as is normally done.

Also Philadelphia and the east coast in general was in a very celebratory mood as WWII ended, first in April in Europe and later in August in Asia. Mixed in was FDR's passing. Who worried about thr quality of the dimes that was on its way out?

As I have said many times before, this dime will someday rival the 1916-D and 1918-D and 1919-D in terms of fame and price.

marcmoish · July 15, 2004 12:09AM

Andy,

Cute - most of my dimes are top 5% of the grade with many ona crackout/regrade likely a notch higher. Maybe down the road

Ken,

Why thank you and I'll leave your reply to dear merc as correct - the actual dime is even better than the photo - the strike is truly super compared to the other many millions - they just don't come better - you can't compare it to another date in all honesty.

Tim,

If you bought your 45P from Mike P I have no doubt that it is a superior quality dime indeed - and you are very lucky too

Brian,

So true, if it was just about getting every dime in a week I can probably have doine that 2 years ago - the object was for me to be patient and fussy.

Thanks Mike, Jim and Jom and all of you for your kind words and sharing in my excitement.

Marc

marcmoish · July 15, 2004 12:13AM

Oreville,

Thanks for adding your comments - I actually was not aware of that angle - see how you can pick up so much more daily here besides flames

Marc

PQpeace · July 15, 2004 4:02AM

I need to chime in one more time about this dime.

The picture in the catalog was very poor.
I bid on the coin what I thought it was worth based on the picture,which was not near what it sold for.

Having Mike look at this coin and bidding on your behalf was a great thing to do.
The coin looks like a 66 in your new pic,rather than much lower in the catalog pic.

It really pays to have someone look at a coin..like Mike before it is purchased.
Congrats again,
Larry

Fairlaneman · July 15, 2004 4:30AM

Larry

Online picture reading and catalog picture reading is pretty important if a person does not have away to view these little things in person. The Merc guys seem to be very good at this. Of course having another party look for you is the best.

Ken

LAWMAN · July 15, 2004 4:52AM

DROOOOOOOL

Merc · July 15, 2004 5:44AM

OK, I'll clairify what I wrote. It is a nice MS65 FB 1945 dime. Yes, I realize it is very difficult to find any 1945 FB dimes from the Philly mint. This coin is one of the best examples available. I just wanted to say that even on a FB one, there still can be some strike weakness. The 1945 dimes were all poorly made at the mint. It was in no way a personal attack on the collector or the coin.

marcmoish · July 15, 2004 8:12AM

Merc .. Not to worry - I did not assume you were knocking either one - my dimes speak for themselves

BTW, you are correct most 45FB's - well the few that are around - actually do exhibit weak detail/strike. That is why I mentioned it's as good as it will ever get. I admit I got lucky this time

Larry, thanks - totally true - while I try to see the coins too whenever possible - most of us need to maintain a work schedule ( to pay for some of those stupid round pieces of metal

) that would never allow me to run around the country looking or bidding - therefore there is truly no comparison to having a dealer - especially and I emphasize especially a well known and trusted long time dealer like Mike.

Marc

Fairlaneman · July 15, 2004 8:17AM

Geez....Sorry I said anything but detail on Mercs started its disappearance in 1926 and kept going down hill. Anyone that thinks a 30's or 40's dime can look like a 20's dime is in La La Land.

Anyway....Sorry I said anything.

Ken

fcloud · July 16, 2004 12:44PM

Marc,

Congratulations on a real gem! You da man!

Tony

Newmismatist · July 16, 2004 1:38PM

<< <i> It seems the mint had some quality control problems and just struck too many dimes per die. >>

I think the mint DID have a quality control problem - probably over-used the dies too - something about some war going on at the time - two fronts too - Europe and the Pacific - might have had a little something to do with the quality control problem - I bet the gov't had some higher priorities at the time

marcmoish · July 17, 2004 1:25PM

Anyone know how many real 45-P in 65FB and 66FB truly exist??

The POP's of 32 in 65 & 13 in 66 is truly suspect and likely way lower.......well graded accurately at least

I know of Oreville's & Tim's as being super examples in 65FB - anyone with more detailed info???

I am aware of no 1945 FB sales in past number of years in either B&M or ANR. The few in the past few years @ Heritage in 65FB truly include nothing super other than Oreville Roberts's sold example which I believe is originally the 6/02 example and a beauty 65 at that.

Ditto w/other auction houses (unsure abt Goldberg or Superior) but @ Heritage the 66FB's in the last few years - (about 5 examples)grade wise and eye appeal and all, are in the so so dept imho - even the pedigreed examples - the only 66FB that stands out in my mind was ex. Kritzman which is indeed super.

Marc

oreville · July 17, 2004 2:16PM

This was the MS-65 FB I sold in November 2003 New York Heritage sale. Yes, it was the one I bought in June 2002 Long Beach with Heritage. I needed to sell it to buy a California Fractional $1 piece I waited 9 years to buy!!!!

JrGMan2004 · July 17, 2004 2:21PM

Mmmm.... '45 Full Bands.... *drool*

Nice coin Marc

oreville · July 17, 2004 2:29PM

This was the MS-65 FB that I kept (bought this in October 2001). I believe this one is an stronger MS-66 FB candidate than the one I reluctantly sold only because it is a much stronger strike all around despite the striations.

wingedliberty · July 17, 2004 2:36PM

Gorgeous coin Orville. I especially like the fact that it was in a midgeneration PCGS holder. I love those.

Fairlaneman · July 17, 2004 2:38PM

When Orville sold his 45P a 66FB coin was For Sale on the David Lawrence site. Everyone was in agreement that Orvilles 65 coin certainly appeared to be the better of the two.

Thats one more 66 that has sold lately for you Marc. Well how about just calling it a coin with a 66 number.

Ken

oreville · July 17, 2004 2:43PM

wingedliberty: If you mean the blue insert holder, I would usually differ with you since normally those were among the more liberally graded ones by PCGS and only once in a while do you luck out and see a truly conservatively graded coin. This was one such case.

By the way, I believe the MS-65 pop report in MS-65 is overstated by at least 15 or so. I would suspect there is as little as 10-15 MS-65 FB. The MS-66 is also overstated in my view. I have only seen 2 of them.

The NGC pop report is much more accurate and I must admit NGC has always been super tough on these!

marcmoish · July 17, 2004 3:19PM

Ken - how interesting than another 66 that evidently was sub par with a 65 beating out - I believe I remember that although totally forgotten.

Oreville your 2 66's .. are you sure I counted a few - maybe 5 66's in past 4-5 years on Heritage - not that I agreed with the grades, as I DID NOT. Did you mean correctly graded as 66??
It seems you would be correct on the 65FB pops at about 10-15 - that truly makes more sense. Even that number is suspect when you take out the off-graded examples.

BTW, I also always loved that first example you sold in Nov. (the photos/scan actually look much better here on this thread, really!) It just has super eye appeal and preservation - I just was not able to do it at that time, and recall having atough time dealing with it

. However, with this example I am no longer in denial

Marc

oreville · July 17, 2004 4:08PM

Marc: Yes, I meant real MS-66 FB's.

By the way, I scored a quick and decent profit on the one I sold but in retrospect, should have tried harder to hang onto it. It is very difficult to hang onto to duplicates of this coin in the same grade let alone different grades especially when the hobby has so many different siren calls.

The strike seems to be a crucial element in the grading between MS-65FB and MS-66FB. Believe it or not, I liked the other one in the blue insert holder even more despite its more apparent flaws.

You were in denial before? Hmmm, hope you are not denial when looking over some of Stewart's, Dpoole's, TDN's, etc. goodies!

grip · July 18, 2004 3:27AM

Marc
Truly a gem,your wait was well worth it.
Al

marcmoish · July 18, 2004 8:32AM

thanks Al, yes it was

thanks Tony

Oreville The strike seems to be a crucial element in the grading between MS-65FB and MS-66FB. Believe it or not, I liked the other one in the blue insert holder even more despite its more apparent flaws.

you know what I am thinking then - so if that's the case I'd have to see it as you truly don't see a superior example by the scans alone. Regarding the 65 v/s 66 I will add the fields, eye appeal and likely a lot more has to do with that jump from 65 to 66 and even then as we agree many of those 66's are NOT 66'S!!
BTW based on your scan, your 65FB looks like it has pretty much superior split full bands (the 2nd ex that you still have).

Ken if the 65 was a better example than the 66 offred at that time , than that just confirms what we are beginning to realize that there truly are very few true 66's likely 3-4 (which includes my 65

, no not crackin yet!....and in 65 only about half of 10-15 examples are likely be true 65's etc.

Interresting eye openers when you start digging abit.

Marc

grip · July 18, 2004 10:30AM

I tryed to find a true 64 or 65 for many years,to no avail,therefore I believe your anology is correct.
Al

Newest MERC 1945 FULL BAND (FB) in the stable.

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