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Morgan grading test: VF35 or XF40? (Grades revealed in 1st post!)

DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
Can you tell which (if any) of these coins have been graded VF35 by PCGS and which (if any) have been graded XF40?

All three have noticeable lustre; #3 the most and #2 the least.
#1 may have had a very quick dip to remove some of the toning.
#2 may have had an acetone bath to remove some of the grime.
#3 looks as original as can be.

Actual grades will be revealed Sunday night.

Coin #1:
imageimage

Coin #2:
imageimage

Coin #3:
imageimage




Thanks to everyone who took part in this little grading exercise. There were 19 of you who offered grade opinions.

-- For coin #1, 10 people guessed VF and 9 guessed XF.
-- For coin #2, 15 people guessed VF and 4 guessed XF.
-- For coin #3, 11 people guessed VF and 8 guessed XF.

Three people got all three coins right -- K6AZ, ER, and COINBUF. Each coin is graded VF35 by PCGS. I bought them all raw and sent them in for grading myself.

Coin #1 was sold to me by a very good dealer friend whose grading ability is top-notch in my book. He sold it as an XF40. When I received it in the mail I instantly knew it was only VF35 at PCGS because of the wear inside the wings and around the eagle's neck.

Coin #2 was bought as a VF+. I thought it was VF35, with a serious chance of being downgraded to VF30 due to the big marks on the cheek and the long mark on the right wing.

Coin #3 was sold as a VF/XF. It has all the lustre and eye appeal of an XF40, but the merging of feathers inside the left wing told me it would only make VF35. I've regraded it once, but without success.

Thanks to all of you who shared their grade opinions and comments on this; I hope it was an enjoyable experience.
When in doubt, don't.

Comments

  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    All three are VF in my opinion. I don't like any of them as XF, and if any are in PCGS XF holders I would say PCGS blew it.
  • ERER Posts: 7,345
    Agree with K6AZ: all are VF.
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    #1-40
    #2 & 3-35.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    All appear XF40 to me, but the weakest looks like coin one (possible 35).

    peacockcoins

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,290 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree also with K6AZ; all look VF.

    Chris
    My Lincoln Registry
    My Collection of Old Holders

    Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
  • They all look like VF-35 to me. However, if any are XF-40 it would have to be number 3 because IMO it has "slightly" less wear and a hint of luster.

    So, my final answer is:

    1. VF-35
    2. VF-35
    3. XF-40
  • BigAlBigAl Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭
    All three have noticeable lustre;

    40
    40
    40
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    Al, are you serious or are you pulling our legs? I have to admit, # 1 and 3 could go either way, but # 2, the 95-S, is no XF.
  • BigAlBigAl Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭
    E-rock,

    looks ripe for an anacs AU50 and an easy $500.

    edit: All three have noticeable lustre
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,253 ✭✭✭✭✭
    #1 is obviously XF
    #2 is VF
    #3 is a liner, but since it "looks as original as can be", VF is far more likely.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • BigAlBigAl Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭

    Eric, without question all three coin blow away the anacs coin in the "respect for anacs thread."
  • BigAlBigAl Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭

    with noticeable lustre #3 is EF in my book.......

    #2 is the big question mark......Especially with the gouge on the cheek & wing....I could see her VF+++ at pcgs but certainly EF details. without the gashes, an easy EF.
  • razorface1027razorface1027 Posts: 4,242 ✭✭
    #1=35
    #2=35
    #3=40

    is that 88-O a 'Hot Lips?"
    What is money, in reality, but dirty pieces of paper and metal upon which privilege is stamped?
  • To me it's also:
    1=40
    #2=35
    #3=40

    image
  • UncleJoeUncleJoe Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭
    1=40
    2=35
    3=35

    Joe.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    vf35
    vf25/vf30
    vf35
    theknowitalltroll;
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The 1888-O is a VAM 4 "Hot Lips"
    The 1895-S is a VAM 3 S/S
    The 1901-P is a VAM 3 "Shifted Eagle"
    When in doubt, don't.
  • jdimmickjdimmick Posts: 9,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am going to go with

    #1 Vf-35
    #2 xf-40
    #3 vf-35

    Given the bump for the 95-s, even though it doeant look it?
  • ColonialCoinUnionColonialCoinUnion Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭
    Coin 1 = XF40, 2 = VF30 primarily do to the hickey on the cheek, and 3 = VF35.


  • Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,656 ✭✭✭
    Only coin #1 is XF. The others are VF-35 max.
  • Is someone keeping track of these votes.
  • #1 XF
    #2 VF
    #3 VF
    Gary
    image
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll do a breakdown summary of all the votes and post it along with the actual PCGS grades tonight.

    I hope the rest of you are having as much fun with this as I am.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The results will prove to be interesting, but let's not forget XF40 is twenty points away from the low end of uncirculated. Twenty points of wear allow for some blending of the details, I'd think.

    peacockcoins

  • Catch22Catch22 Posts: 1,086 ✭✭
    35,30,40 in order.


    When we are planning for posterity, we ought to remember that virtue is not hereditary.

    Thomas Paine
  • PlacidPlacid Posts: 11,299 ✭✭✭
    What time sunday?
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    6 p.m. West Coast time... give or take a few minutes for me to type everything out.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the only one with a shot at 40 based on the wing wear would be the first one and that would be a beggar 40 at that.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BAJJERFAN:

    So should I put you down for 35-35-35?
    When in doubt, don't.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    35/30/35
    theknowitalltroll;
  • VetVet Posts: 1,513
    #1and two VF,# 3 XF. I have seen a few XF, in pcgs holderS that dont look as good as#3
    "Freedom of speech is a great thing.Just because you can say anything does not mean you should.
  • I am feeling pretty good with my picks.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    don't know if this is fair but here is a 35 for reference

    image
    theknowitalltroll;
  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,991 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice '93-S!!

    What do you do to get your photos so large? I'm scanning at 72 dpi, but the ones I posted are as big as I can fit in 50K file size.
    When in doubt, don't.
  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BAJJERFAN, reference is on the way. Please ship 35 on receipt.

    Thanks.

    image
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It won't surprise me if one of those 3 coins is a 25.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • coinkatcoinkat Posts: 23,093 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like the idea of a grading test between VF35 and EF40... Unfortunately, I really think the coins selected for this were probably not the best and let me explain. The 1888-O Hot Lips had some striking problems and full struck coins are much tougher to get and I would not want to use that coin as a bench mark for what constitutes a VF35 or EF40coin. The one you selected is not original, but in all fairness, is not a bad example and probably worthy of an EF40 GRADE.

    The 1895-s is probably VF30, perhaps a 35 on a good day, and very tough to find in this grade...nice coin. Hold onto it because most collectors just do not appreciate how tough this coin is to find... and because it is the S/S VAM, that even makes it all the better.

    The 1901 shifted eagle is also not original. The 1901 Morgan is known for weakness, bad strikes and finding an attractive one is a challenge. This shifted eagle, in my view, is between a 35 and 40. If it were original, I would give it the 40.



    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

  • I loved the test because each coin has to be graded on its own and these three coins showed how hard it is to graded between five points in the circulated band.

    I hope to see more of these challenges. I thought it was fun.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hot diggity. I'm three for three. All wrong!

    Well now I know I overgrade Morgans by five points... image

    peacockcoins

  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,082 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dennis: I shudda picked your 3 LOL.
    I think the folks who did better are probly those who have or have had a coin of similar grade.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • K6AZK6AZ Posts: 9,295
    For everyone thinking about strike on these coins, you are not looking at them like an experienced grader would. As I have stated in many other threads, the key diagnostic in these grades are the interior feathers of the left wing, which are always struck up well regardless of how well or poor the centers of the coin are struck. If you are focusing on the eagle's breast or the hair above Liberty's ear you are not looking at the right spots on coins for this grade.
  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Eric,
    I concede to your knowledge within this series.
    You have the EYE

    peacockcoins

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