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WV Shoebox's new catalog (where's the PSA?)
jrdolan
Posts: 2,549 ✭✭
I just received Wayne Varner's new catalog, the "National Convention Issue," and was immediately struck by the overwhelming presence of GAI cards. There's only a sprinkling of PSA through the catalog. Some pages are nothing but GAI. Is Shoebox phasing out PSA inventory altogether?
I was also struck by the very large price jumps for GAI's half-point increments above PSA. Examples:
1956 Clemente PSA 8 - $875; GAI 8.5 - $1,800
1956 Mantle PSA 8 - $2,500; GAI 8.5 - $4,000
1958 Mantle/Aaron PSA 8 - $1,500; GAI 8.5 - $3,000
This is striking to me because the extra half-point has meant only a small increase, perhaps 20% at best, over the grade below in my auctions of GAI cards. Sometimes a GAI 7.5, for example, would even sell for a PSA 7 price or less. I guess I should have been selling my GAI's to Wayne!
Anyway, I have been reading about certain large dealers recently placing huge submissions with GAI, and buying up GAI cards, and I guess this is proof of that.
I was also struck by the very large price jumps for GAI's half-point increments above PSA. Examples:
1956 Clemente PSA 8 - $875; GAI 8.5 - $1,800
1956 Mantle PSA 8 - $2,500; GAI 8.5 - $4,000
1958 Mantle/Aaron PSA 8 - $1,500; GAI 8.5 - $3,000
This is striking to me because the extra half-point has meant only a small increase, perhaps 20% at best, over the grade below in my auctions of GAI cards. Sometimes a GAI 7.5, for example, would even sell for a PSA 7 price or less. I guess I should have been selling my GAI's to Wayne!
Anyway, I have been reading about certain large dealers recently placing huge submissions with GAI, and buying up GAI cards, and I guess this is proof of that.
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loth
JUST MY .02
My eBay Store
BigCrumbs! I made over $250 last year!
I can put any price I want on my cards. But what they sell for, if they sell, is whats matters.
Check out all the BIN's listed yesterday. How many will sell??????????????????????
1956 Mantle PSA 8 - $2,500; GAI 8.5 - $4,000
1958 Mantle/Aaron PSA 8 - $1,500; GAI 8.5 - $3,000
They can put these crazy prices on cards but who will buy them? $1,500 price differences between an 8 and an 8.5, IMO this is crazy but to each his own.
STEELERS4LIFE
I got that catalogue yesterday and noticed the same thing.
Perused it in the "reading room". Mine is currently on its way to the ocean.
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
until I realized it's almost 90 degrees outside.
GAI will never take off with graded cards.
The leaders are trying their best to get things going,
but look on ebay for SGC cards. They will be one and the same one day.
I remember speaking to a very well known dealer
at Fort Washington. His main gripe with PSA was that
they would give you no beforehand idea of what a card
would grade. In this dealers opinion, that was too risky
for him to submit to PSA. This dealer now has a lot
of GAI cards.
<< <i>The other thing here too, is that if they get enough GAI cards graded to draw attention and they sell those cards, then those prices are "realized" and the value of all GAI cards should help to reflect those increases. If it is the same dealers it's brilliant. Just keep selling the same/similar cards back and forth to each other for gradually increasing prices and eventually the market will take notice. "Gee, those GAI cards in half-grades are really commanding some hefty premiums" It's basically a more sophisticated Shill-game if that's the case. It's just atrificially increasing the value of cards so these people can make $$$. Makes sense. Dunno if it's true or not. Once somebody buys that 56 Clemente for $1000 over PSA 8 because it's a half-grade higher then the bar has been set and GAI, Ebay and everyone else will start to take notice of that
JUST MY .02 >>
Just wanted you to know I’m not a dealer. I purchased 3 graded cards from Shoebox cards last week. They sent me 4 cards total. I purchased 1 PSA graded card and two GAI graded cards. The PSA was a 8. The GAI cards were an 8 and 8.5. The 4th card that I returned was a PSA 8 it was the same card as the GAI 8.5. I paid $525 more for the GAI 8.5.
I am a collector that buys the card and not the grade as long as I can afford it. The 8.5 was bettered centered and had 4 sharper corners. To me the card was worth more than the difference of $525. I sent Shoebox a PSA 8 card I had for sale ( I had just upgraded the card to a PSA 9) They purchased the card for 88% of SMR.
I was told by two dealers at the Chicago show that dealers were going around and buying high end PSA 7's and 8's, cracking them out and submitting them to GAI hoping to get a half graded bump. I have a feeling the card I sold to Shoebox is on it's way to GAI ( Good luck Shoebox ).
Just for the record I own some nice SGC graded cards also.
I noticed that most of the PSA authorized dealers at the show that sold vintage cards ( I don't look at new card dealers tables ) were selling PSA and GAI cards. Some also offered SGC as well.
If the card is nice enough I don't care if PSA, GAI or SGC graded the card, if I can afford it I will buy any of the three.
Thanks H. Walker
Brian
Always looking for 1957 Topps BB in PSA 9!
It's interesting how the grading ecosystem operates. Now, Wentz is selling PSA cards and Varner has totally jumped into bed with GAI. I think Varner made a huge mistake. The hobby hardtimers are heavily involved in the PSA set registry. I know I don't want to make a large purchase and have to sweat the crossover. It becomes costly and time consuming. PSA won the chess game when they cleverly decided not to cross GAI cards. Instead of gaining a further advantage in slabs, they figured it out and ended the major reasons a vintage GAI card is purchased. GAI was a fairly reliable minor league for picking out authenticated cards to enhance our sets. Now, if you buy a GAI card, you have to break the slab. I'm not super conservative, but I don't have to cojones to constantly face the chance of lower grades and possible alterations on expensive cards. Thus, buying GAI has become the equivalent of buying raw. Especially since GAI allows you to give a minimum grade and pay only if the grade is met. That is a glaring conflict of interest.
Many dealers tried to keep some balance so PSA stayed on its toes. Varner decided guaranteed upgrades in GAI holders would be more lucrative. It's going to take millions of dollars of shill buying to substantiate a GAI card's price now. Since Varner is a large player in the industry, I'm sure he'll admit his mistake and come back to PSA. PSA is always happy to have humbled big dealers back from other grading companies. They make their money from slabbing cards. Big dealers submit a lot of cards. If GAI would have built a state of the art set registry a year ago, thing may have been different.
Basically, dealers have always looked for the edge. It's logical since many make their entire income from cards. It's difficult to keep coming up with stunning new raw material these days. People are aware of card values and big collections sitting in grandpa's attic have already sold. Varner felt GAI was an easy way to increase the value of his inventory without doing any work. There are no shortcuts in this game. You have to dig deeper and work harder to grow your business. Varner, obviously, wasn't dedicated enough to put in the effort. Thus, he will suffer. It will take some time for him to regain his credibility, but I'm sure this mistake won't be held against him forever. We've (The collectors) faced the high Beckett, low Beckett dealer nonsense, garage-based self-grading companies, shill bidding, card doctors, etc... A strong PSA inventory priced competitively with Ebay prices is the current recipe for success. I'd be surprised if anyone finds a way around this simple strategy.
Best,
S.
<< <i>Especially since GAI allows you to give a minimum grade and pay only if the grade is met. That is a glaring conflict of interest. >>
Exactly. Seems to be additional incentive there for GAI to "meet" a lot of expected grades...
It's just unsettling to see a major dealer like Shoebox to give PSA cards only a token presence in its catalog, as if PSA were a fringe grader and GAI were the dominant market force.
Also unsettling to see a half-grade bump in GAI result in a doubling of the price. It's as if Shoebox is saying "8.5 is so good, it's equal to PSA 9." I'm sure it's a lovely card and to some incremental degree better than PSA 8, but twice the price? I'm lucky if I get 20% more for GAI X.5 over PSA X. So I don't understand what's going on.
Not understanding is unsettling, and makes me want to steer clear until I do understand.
We have all long awaited the return of the great and powerfull Zardoz.
I believe that with the recent posts of Scumbi, the gauntlet has now been thrown down.
If anyone dares try to take the crown of 'greatest poster ever' away from Scumbi,
it can only be Zardoz, so let him resurface now, or forever hold his peace,
or at least hold it until it starts to feel really uncomfortable ...
"How about a little fire Scarecrow ?"
<< <i>
<< <i>Especially since GAI allows you to give a minimum grade and pay only if the grade is met. That is a glaring conflict of interest. >>
Exactly. Seems to be additional incentive there for GAI to "meet" a lot of expected grades... >>
This has been discussed on the set registry board.
It is a rumor that is false.
H. Walker
<< <i>
Anyway, I have been reading about certain large dealers recently placing huge submissions with GAI, and buying up GAI cards, and I guess this is proof of that. >>
wv is smoking some stale cardboard with their offers on psa cards too.
this isnt proof of huge submissions and to me it looks like psa 8s that dealers
think should be 9s are only coming back 1/2 grades higher.
<< <i> Mine is currently on its way to the ocean. >>
Wolf
With those half grade prices - there's a lotto bloat in that catalog - hope you didn't flush! Cause that puppy might back up the plumbing!
Stone
Chew....I would love to hear your thoughts on a hobby issue that is not-GAI related.
grading market, period. Are some people
disgruntled with them, yes.
Are many people happy with them, yes.
The truth is that GAI controls the pack
collecting market. Are many people disgruntled
with them (including Mark Murphy), yes.
Are some people happy with them. yes.
However, everyone else please open your eyes
and see that PSA will continue to dominate the
vintage card collecting hobby. Unless you have absolutely
no interest in the value of your vintage collection, go ahead
and collect every card companies cards.
However, if you care about the value of your vintage
collection, then stick with PSA.
I am very happy with the imperfect company called PSA.
They make many mistakes and so do I.
However, the simple truth is that PSA will control the
vintage market forever. BGS may control some of the
newer stuff, but PSA still has an upper hand on that too.
If you are a GAI collector, then hanging out on this
board is like a liberal democrat hanging out on a
conservative republican message board.
A few people get mad at PSA for doing their job and decide to go elsewhere. If your doing your job the best you can there are bound to always be a few people mad at you. A grading company isn't doing their job if they have no complaint department. There isn't anything wrong with PSA that shouldn't be wrong with every good grading company. There are alternatives to PSA, but the people who stand to gain the most from you buying something else, is the person trying to talk you in to buying that something else that he just happens now to be selling. Instinct's telling you to run but greed's saying take a shot.
Website: http://www.qualitycards.com
Loth