Is this a 1888 O "Hot Lips"? and any opinions on the grade..

Trooper

This one caught my eye. I'm assuming that I'm seeing doubling in the nose, mouth and chin area. So that's my asumption of the "Hot Lips". The color is way off as is all his other coin pics and the pic isn't the greatest either....

The main thing I'm looking for is a nice example so I'm not to concerned about getting it slab but if it does without a "net" that would be nice.

I'm thinking xf 35--40 ..... any other grade opinions....

thanks ahead

Tom

numonebuyer

It certainly has the Hot Lips characteristics with the doubling of the nose, lips and chin.

A better picture would be nice.

Wolf359

Looks like it; although that doubling is extreme. Trooper, this is a very weakly struck variety and therefore tough to grade. Go by luster, not wear. Looks XF+ from the photos.

ksteelheader

Is this what it looks like???
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DennisH

If it has some lustre it could be a VF35. Otherwise my guess is VF30.

Trooper

Numo and Wolf...Thanks for the opinions..

Wolf the doubling does looks extreme, is there such thing as a "early doubling state"? where the doubling is more pronounced...

Ken, hopefully the coin will be here in a few days and i can post a better pic...

Dennis, I was thinking around 35 but after looking at some other Morgans on the net, I'm guessing lower myself now.

Tom

Wolf359

Trooper...no. In research theory this was a hub error. The error was transferred to the die, so all the "HotLips" have the same amount of doubling. It's not like a die break where later states may be discovered where the break got worse and worse. Just does not apply here, because it not a problem with the die. It's at the hub level, above the die on a hierarchy chart.

So, I'm very curious about what you have. Post larger photos if you can. If the doubling IS THAT extreme, you've got something new (maybe) that Leroy Van Allen needs to see.

coinkat

We need a different picture to offer a reasonable opinion. From what I see, I think you did well and that coin may grade higher than you think if it is original. This strike doesn't look too bad. What does the reverse look like?

koynekwest

This is a hubbING error-restricted to just one die. There are numerous HUB doublings, such as the 1914/13 Buffalo, with at least 9 different dies known. This is where the doubling occured on the working hub itself and was transferred to every working die produced from the doubled hub. Early die states exist for most all doubled dies, and any doubling will be clearer on an early die state. A few doubled dies are so rare that they're known ONLY in EDS.